Fiat 500 Abarth, any good?

Jokester said:
Fiat 500 is a mini/super mini isn’t it?
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Certainly at least one size class down from a Focus I'd say. Probably enough of a size difference to say that they aren't particularly in the same part of the market, making Dis86's comparison even weirder - so the Focus is 10 grand more to buy, larger, has more doors and is a bit more expensive to run. But yeah, aside from all that it's a perfect alternative for someone who wants a Fiat Abarth :p
 
JRS said:
Certainly at least one size class down from a Focus I'd say. Probably enough of a size difference to say that they aren't particularly in the same part of the market, making Dis86's comparison even weirder - so the Focus is 10 grand more to buy, larger, has more doors and is a bit more expensive to run. But yeah, aside from all that it's a perfect alternative for someone who wants a Fiat Abarth :p
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Read properly and you'll see the alternate I'm actually recommending is the Fiesta. Also worth noting I'm not sure where you've pulled your RS price from? I'm literally looking on the Ford website now and they're 33k including tax etc. Could get a Focus ST-2 for 24k.

As for the 595, the cheapest 180 is 21k on their website not including tax and registration and is pretty spartan in terms of spec.

So anyways - back to my original point - it ain't a hot hatch.
 
I ran an Abarth 500 EsseEsse for about 3 years as my daily car. Before that I had a Z4 coupe and the Abarth was soooo much more fun to drive, in fact i think it is the most fun car I have ever had the pleasure of driving. It handles well in EsseEsse form (with the optional koni dampers) makes a great noise and feels very nippy. Is it "fast", no, but it is fast enough and is surprisingly fast between 30 and 70 which is where it matters.

It does come with some downsides though. Servicing every 6000 miles (its cheap to service though), eats through front top mounts, The seating position takes about 4 weeks to get used to, rear space and boot space is limited, hard ride without the koni dampers.

Best advice I can give is to go and test drive one....I'm sure you'll love it.
 
People put way too much emphasis on 0-60 times. Fiat 500 is tiny. It'll feel quick and nippy even if it's not blindingly fast in a straight line, but 6.7 is absolutely fine tbh.
 
[TW]Fox said:
Yes it is.
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By the Fox definition? Or by the recognised ones?

As Wizardskills, a former owner, says it's not "fast" - certainly not by today's standards - I think I've demonstrated that by listing the current widely accepted top hot hatches and showing that it's slower than some 40 year old examples.
It's also, as pointed out, a city-car/super-mini so not even in the same size class as your 'definitive' example of the golf.
It does have a hatchback though...not that it's remotely practical (which I think was one of the original points of the hot-hatch).

The fiesta, as I've mentioned a few times is curiously also classed as a super-mini even though the some versions of the current iteration are bigger than the original focus - a compact car.
 
It doesn't need to be neck snappingly fast to be a hot hatch.

I've got no horse in this race, I hate the 500 so much that I'd probably just call a taxi if I got to the rental desk and it was all they had left, but it's still a hot hatch.
 
[TW]Fox said:
It doesn't need to be neck snappingly fast to be a hot hatch.

I've got no horse in this race, I hate the 500 so much that I'd probably just call a taxi if I got to the rental desk and it was all they had left, but it's still a hot hatch.
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By what definition though? You've said the cars widely accepted as being the top modern hot hatches don't really fit the criteria - what criteria?
 
The current top "hot hatches" are too fast and are effectively hyper hatches. The 'hot hatch' bracket has shifted a bit.
 
I hired a automatic 500 last year which had about 69bhp and did 0 to 60 sometime next week (about 11 seconds I think). Leaving it in second gear it was such good fun on twisty mountain rounds. Of course the mpg was less then my 3.5L hybrid I drive at home but I really enjoyed it. If I had the money, I would buy the Abarth 500 for my place in Spain.

Also one of the reasons I hired the 500, it was one of the few superminis I comfortably fit in being over 6ft3..
 
The focus RS and it's ilk aren't hot hatches, they've created a whole new market segment, call it whatever you like (hyper hatch?)

Hot hatches used to be warm versions of regular hatches that didn't cost silly money like these hyper hatches do.

Comparing an abarth with Golf Rs and A45 AMGs is laughable.
 
MooMoo444 said:
The current top "hot hatches" are too fast and are effectively hyper hatches. The 'hot hatch' bracket has shifted a bit.
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And that's the point. As design moves on so do the categories. Look at supercars now compared to those from the 70s, 80s and 90s. What do you notice? Oh yeah - they're faster.

Family saloons are now as quick as some 80s supercars. Are family saloons classed as supercars now? No. The goalposts just move over time.

The fiat doesn't fit in to the current goalposts for hot hatches.
 
I think they are technically in the same class as the Fiesta, but the Fiesta now isn't much smaller than a Golf!

But yea, it's crazy how average performance cars are now quicker than supercars were in the 80s :p
 
Dis86 said:
And that's the point. As design moves on so do the categories. Look at supercars now compared to those from the 70s, 80s and 90s. What do you notice? Oh yeah - they're faster.

Family saloons are now as quick as some 80s supercars. Are family saloons classed as supercars now? No. The goalposts just move over time.

The fiat doesn't fit in to the current goalposts for hot hatches.
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Hot hatch was never about outright performance though. The hot hatch was the everyday hatchback that's sporty and fun when the mood takes you.

There is nothing everyday about a 40 thousand quid 4wd Golf with launch control.
 
Dis86 said:
Sunbeam Lotus. Between 150 and 250bhp depending on the variant produced in a road going version from 1979.

Mg maestro was 88 and that was the same.

Could further chuck in some if the lancia delta/hf variants of the mid to late 80s too.
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An MG Maestro will not do 0-60 in 7 seconds, not by some margin! Neither will a Lotus Sunbeam.
 
Pyscho_Si said:
Totally agree. A car costing over £40k is not in the true spirit of what a hot hatch is.
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Golf R (34k), RS (32k), Type R (31k) all sub 35k. The A45 is an outlier along with the M140i and RS3 as they're premium brands so they're going to cost more anyway. These are all cars that are frequently reviewed as being the best hot hatches money can buy.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars/66682/best-hot-hatchbacks

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/best-cars/top-10-best-hot-hatches

http://www.evo.co.uk/features/17391/best-hot-hatches-2018-serious-performance-in-practical-packages

http://www.carbuyer.co.uk/reviews/recommended/best-hot-hatchbacks

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/topten/top-10-hot-hatches/?image=0

What never makes a showing on these lists...the 500!



[TW]Fox said:
Hot hatch was never about outright performance though. The hot hatch was the everyday hatchback that's sporty and fun when the mood takes you.

There is nothing everyday about a 40 thousand quid 4wd Golf with launch control.
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The multitude of people I see driving them every day would dispute that. Our very own Gibbo being a prime example when he had his.

And you're right - it's not just about outright performance. It's about the fact it comes from a usable family car thus has practicality. The 500 doesn't have that at all. You cannot fit humans in the back. You cannot fit anything in the boot. It is terrible over any distance!

Also nice quote here...

"This raucous little Fiat adheres to the golden rule of warm hatches: put a broad smile on the driver's face."

That's from the autocar review.

Lopéz said:
An MG Maestro will not do 0-60 in 7 seconds, not by some margin! Neither will a Lotus Sunbeam.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin_Maestro#MG_Maestro_Turbo_(1989–1991)
MG Maestro Turbo (1989–1991)[edit]
With the Rover Group only a few months away, the limited edition (500 + 5 press cars) MG Maestro Turbo (displayed at Birmingham in October 1988 and launched in early 1989) was the final car from ARG. It made use of the 2.0's already impressive engine, but the combination of carburettor and turbocharger gave it a top speed of 128 mph (206 km/h) and a 0–60 mph time of 6.7 seconds.[10] It was faster than the majority of its competitors, but the high performance, Tickford designed bodykit and alloys did little to disguise the fact that it was very much still a Maestro. Sales were slow, as it appeared six years after the Maestro's launch.


http://www.performance-car-guide.co.uk/performance-cars/talbot/sunbeam-lotus.html

Talbot Sunbeam Lotus (1979-1981)
Country
UK
Top Speed (mph)
121
0-60 mph
6.8
 
Dis86 said:
The multitude of people I see driving them every day would dispute that. Our very own Gibbo being a prime example when he had his.
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I didn't mean you couldnt drive them every day, obviously you can, but it's a VW hatchback for the price of a premium saloon, it's not an everyman hot hatch is it?
 
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