Dear GLP please settle an argument/discussion

ennogs

ennogs

ennogs

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Hi people of GD.

I need your help settling an argument/discussion. My calculations are below but my friend disagrees with me. He asked me to do the maths for him but disagrees with my maths.

A friend of mine works part time. He does hours 18.45 per week. If he worked full time he would do 37 hours a week. In terms of hourse he does each week he does half a week’s work. 37 hours per week halved = 18.45 hours. He does exactly half the hours a fulltime employee would do.

He works

Monday (not including bank holidays that fall on a Monday) 9:45 – 16:30

Tuesday (not including bank holidays that fall on a Tuesday ) 9:45 – 16:30

Wednesday (not including bank holidays that fall on a Wednesday) 9:45 – 16:30

Each day that he works he has an unpaid lunch of 30 minutes. Obviously that means he works 6.15 hours per day. 3 days x 6.15 hours = 18.45 hours per week.

Holiday entitlement for his length of service is 25 days plus all the bank holidays = 33 days. Holiday/financial year is from 1st April to 31st March.

Because of the way Easter falls on a different date each year this holiday/financial year from April 1st 2018 – March 31st 2019 there are only 7 bank holidays. Obviously then my friend gets 7 bank holidays this year.

25 days holiday entitlement plus 7 bank holidays = 32 days holiday entitlement. 32 x 7.5 hours (for a full time employee) = 240 hours

As my friend does exactly half the hours per week that a fulltime worker does my friends holiday entitlement is 120 hours. 240 hours for a full time employee hours halved.

My friends holiday entitlement = 120 hours for this year.

As he works 6.15 hours per day every time he takes a holiday or bank holiday falls on a day he normally works on he simply takes 6.15 hours from his 120 hours holiday entitlement.

So brains of GD, am I right or wrong in my calculations?
 
adolf hamster said:
he's working half a week, does losing one bank holiday really matter that much?
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You misunderstand the issue. My friend is not saying I am wrong about the 1 days bank holiday. He says my maths is wrong (despite the fact he was struggling to do it for himself). According to my calculations my friend gets 120 hours holiday entitlement this year and simply talkes 6.15 hours off that entitlement every time he has holiday day. Are my calculations right?

Does my friend get 120 hours holiday entitlement this year?

Every time he takes a bank holiday or day off as a holiday does he simply take 6.15 hours off his holiday hours entitlement?
 
All the above questions PLUS...

I think it's an error to use a full time employee as 7.5 hours a day to calculate your friends holiday hours entitlement. There's something amiss there, perhaps relating to them taking a longer lunch.

It all needs to be based on that employee's definitions of a full work day, work week etc. The problem here is that a "day off" to full timers is 7.5 hours, whereas for him he needs to take theoretically 6.25 hours of holiday for a day off. Watch your decimalisation of hours there, where you mean minutes.

You're on tricky ground using the number of hours worked and hours of holiday as a basis for number of days off. The employer might be ok with doing it this way because they appear to have rejigged your friends hours. But they may not.
 
So for my part time staff it is all done on hours pro-rata of their full time entitlement. The bank holidays are added in as hours. They then choose if they want to take the bank holidays as part of the full entitlement (they do, we don't open bank holidays) leaving the pro-rata hours left to take. I will look tomorrow if I remember and use the formula HR gives us.
 
aside from minor errors where you've written 6.45 hours instead of 6 hours 45 minutes etc.. I think you're right OP
 
Haven't done any of the maths but quickly putting the details into the system at work came up with slightly over 94 hours.
 
First off, half of 37 hours is 18.5 hours (18 hours, 30 mins), not 18.75 hours (18 hours, 45 mins) as you stated. The rest of the maths I believe is correct, it just depends if the assumptions you've made are correct.

Next, it depends how the business works out holidays. Are they a number of days, or a number of hours? If they're a number of days, it may not matter how many hours you do in a day, you still need to take a full day if you're not coming in to the office at all. (My employer was like this when everyone used to do 1/2 day Fridays, if you wanted to take Friday off, you had to use a full day holiday, even though you're only in for half a normal day's hours). IME shift work is often done on hours, e.g. 1 day holiday is equal to x hours that week.
 
Is it possible that his full weeks work be 37.5 hours? That makes more sense given some of the numbers you quote (37.5/2 = 18 hrs 45mins...), for a typical office job 5 x 7.5 = 37.5.

When I saw that you were mixing hours-minutes and the decimal system I gave up.
 
Personally, I wouldn't work it out like that. If the holiday entitlement is 33 days (25 + 8 bank hols) for a 5 day working week then as he works 3 days he would get 3/5ths = 19.8 days (This can be rounded up to 20 but not down to 19.5 or 19)

Then I would take off the actual Bank Holidays that fall on his working days in the year and the remaining amount is the available holiday for him to book.

It will come down to how the Holiday pay is detailed to be paid in your contract tbh, to how the calculation is to be done. Usually hours are used when the employee has an irregular shift pattern
 
Freakbro said:
Personally, I wouldn't work it out like that. If the holiday entitlement is 33 days (25 + 8 bank hols) for a 5 day working week then as he works 3 days he would get 3/5ths = 19.8 days (This can be rounded up to 20 but not down to 19.5 or 19)

Then I would take off the actual Bank Holidays that fall on his working days in the year and the remaining amount is the available holiday for him to book.
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that seems a bit arbitrary - should really be pro-rata - assuming bank holidays make no difference to whether the business is open or not (isn't clear what the job is) then they ought to just be added to the total holiday allowance of which he gets 3/5ths

otherwise you disproportionately reward a part time worker who say works Monday - Wednesday (who will get almost all bank holidays) and would massively penalise a part time worker who works Tuesday - Thursday (ergo doesn't have any bank holidays)
 
If the business isn't open on BH days then don't include them in the balance, but also means you don't need to deduct that day from the allowance. So if a FT worker gets 25 days AL, and he works half the hours then he gets 12.5 days AL. If a BH falls on a Monday then great he has a day off paid, if it falls on a Friday then tough he's already off so unpaid.

What's his actual confusion?
 
Loves Love Island said:
that seems a bit arbitrary - should really be pro-rata - assuming bank holidays make no difference to whether the business is open or not (isn't clear what the job is) then they ought to just be added to the total holiday allowance of which he gets 3/5ths

otherwise you disproportionately reward a part time worker who say works Monday - Wednesday (who will get almost all bank holidays) and would massively penalise a part time worker who works Tuesday - Thursday (ergo doesn't have any bank holidays)
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No, I don't think you have understood. He will get paid for the bank holiday (hence it is within part of the 3/5ths calculation), it's just not part of the 19.8 eligible to book freely.

(Disclaimer : I do this all the time for work)

They both get 19.8 days holiday, it's just the W-F worker gets more flexibility to choose what days, the M-W worker just has enforced days off ie: the bank holidays
 
Freakbro said:
No, I don't think you have understood. He will get paid for the bank holiday (hence it is within part of the 3/5ths calculation), it's just not part of the 19.8 eligible to book freely.

(Disclaimer : I do this all the time for work)
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ah you didn't really explain - what do you mean by you'd "take off the actual bank holidays"?

(if the business is open as per usual on bank holidays then I don't see any need for treating them differently tbh.. should just be part of the total holiday allowance)

or for example suppose someone doesn't work any bank holidays (they work Tuesday-Thursday say) - would you not just give them 3/5ths of the holiday + bank holiday allowance?
 
Loves Love Island said:
ah you didn't really explain - what do you mean by you'd "take off the actual bank holidays"?

(if the business is open as per usual on bank holidays then I don't see any need for treating them differently tbh.. should just be part of the total holiday allowance)
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I was assuming the business is shut on a Bank Holiday - else there is no need to mention them at all (since there is no obligation to have a Bank holiday off)

So when calculating the total entitlement of 3/5 of 33 days (25 + 8 BH) leaving 19.8 days then you look to see how many bank holidays he will be having off in the year - and these are the ones you "take off" from the total entitement of 19.8 days, leaving say 12.8 days to book freely.

He still then has 19.8 days off from work.


edit : in fact in the Op it says "Monday (not including bank holidays that fall on a Monday) 9:45 – 16:30" which indicates the company is shut on BH's
 
Freakbro said:
I was assuming the business is shut on a Bank Holiday - else there is no need to mention them at all (since there is no obligation to have a Bank holiday off)

So when calculating the total entitlement of 3/5 of 33 days (25 + 8 BH) leaving 19.8 days then you look to see how many bank holidays he will be having off in the year - and these are the ones you "take off" from the total entitement of 19.8 days, leaving say 12.8 days to book freely.

He still then has 19.8 days off from work.
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ah fair enough :)
 
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