Boris and the burka

Regy53 said:
I am not racist, but would vote for a ban to. I am afraid you do not know who hides under these things and that is a scary thought.

You could be a fully fledged wanted criminal, a bit of face paint (depending on race) and you could 80% fit in to modern day society unnoticed.

I am also against them when driving, visibility would be reduced
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Whilst I don't necessarily disagree with you, I feel like the idea of someone else being under a burka is misleading. I don't honestly believe that there are people going around in burkas pretending to be someone else.

I'm also not sure that the men whose wives wear burkas allow them to drive, so that eliminates the second issue!

I used to think it would make sense to ban them. They're oppressive, a possible security concern, and simply ridiculous IMO. But, avenged7fold makes a good point - you're likely to further oppress people who are already heavily oppressed.
 
D.P. said:
Who on the Left has turned the Burka into a symbol of freedom?

You will find most people on the left also disapprove of the Burka due to the symbolic reason for wearing them and the subjugation of Muslim women,
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Nope, the lefts narrative is generally that it's "Freedom of expression" and that to ban it is an attack on liberties. Sadiq Khan was on Question Time saying as much not so long ago.

D.P. said:
the left largely wont agree to banning them as that is a restriction of personal freedom.
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Exactly, they're using the freedom argument to promote an oppressive culture that in most cases is forced on Muslim women by their husbands. The left have spent the last few years banning anything they dislike so they obviously don't hold freedom that highly, they only support freedom when it suits their side of the argument.
 
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mmj_uk said:
Nope, the lefts narrative is generally that it's "Freedom of expression" and that to ban it is an attack on liberties. Sadiq Khan was on Question Time saying as much not so long ago.



Exactly, they're using the freedom argument to promote an oppressive culture that in most cases is forced on Muslim women by their husbands. The left have spent the last few years banning anything they dislike so they obviously don't hold freedom that highly, they only support freedom when it suits their side of the argument.
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This is just more nonsense. Banning clothing doesn't make the choice to wear it more free, it restricts choices.

And who is this "left' you speak of, and what have they banned?
 
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The adult women seem to wear it of their own free will, I'm not convinced they are forced to wear it by their community or their
patriarchal elders.

However someone must instruct small schoolgirls to start wearing the headscarf thing, who would that be, teachers ? parents ?

Why should a 11 year old girl protect her "modesty" by covering her hair ?
 
Why isn't MeToo going in to nuclear meltdown about Muslim women being forced in to a dress code by men? I don't see any criticism from those lot at all...
 
dirtychinchilla said:
Whilst I don't necessarily disagree with you, I feel like the idea of someone else being under a burka is misleading. I don't honestly believe that there are people going around in burkas pretending to be someone else.
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Why not?

If I was going to commit crimes in the UK today, it's the first thing I'd consider. It's the only way to evade detection without arousing suspicion. It's perfect for the task. Without one, a criminal either has to accept a very high risk of being recorded (the UK is under more surveillance than any other country in the world - you almost certainly would be recorded at some point) or cover their face in a way that will immediately attract suspicion (e.g. a balaclava) and still have to consider the possibility of being recorded before or after they put it on. With a burka, no such problem exists.
 
I notice TM is trying to frame this as an attack on women, now. Not sure why; she must think we're all idiots.
 
dirtychinchilla said:
Whilst I don't necessarily disagree with you, I feel like the idea of someone else being under a burka is misleading. I don't honestly believe that there are people going around in burkas pretending to be someone else.

I'm also not sure that the men whose wives wear burkas allow them to drive, so that eliminates the second issue!

I used to think it would make sense to ban them. They're oppressive, a possible security concern, and simply ridiculous IMO. But, avenged7fold makes a good point - you're likely to further oppress people who are already heavily oppressed.
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One of the July 21st bombing suspects, Yasmin Omar, was arrested in Birmingham, and the jury at his trial was shown CCTV of him of him wearing a burka and carrying a handbag at Golders Green coach station earlier in the day.
 
Roland Butter said:
The adult women seem to wear it of their own free will, I'm not convinced they are forced to wear it by their community or their
patriarchal elders.

However someone must instruct small schoolgirls to start wearing the headscarf thing, who would that be, teachers ? parents ?

Why should a 11 year old girl protect her "modesty" by covering her hair ?
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It's a bit like how there's a difference when school kids go to swimming lessons. The boys wear swimming shorts while the girls have most of their torso covered...
 
I agree with him, but not necessarily the way he's expressed it - Either something is a security issue or it isn't, saying 'cos religion' doesn't remove/reduce the security concern and should have no weight in the discussion.
 
D.P. said:
This is just more nonsense. Banning clothing doesn't make the choice to wear it more free, it restricts choices.
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Yet the left are perfectly happy to restrict choices on a whole host of other things, wow good for them standing up for Muslim womens rights to be culturally oppressed. Sadiq Kahn banned posters of women wearing bikinis in London but champions the freedom to wear burkas.

Around my area Muslim males generally walk in front of their wives when about the town, I guess the women are just slower walkers and it's not some patriarchal cultural tradition or anything. They're just exercising their freedom to walk behind the man.

D.P. said:
And who is this "left' you speak of, and what have they banned?
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The left that bans grid girls in F1, walk on girls in darts, beauty contests, tries to restrict free speech through hate speech laws, censors things it doesn't like through social media giants, violently protests speakers it doesn't like in order to shut them down.
 
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It comes down to two things, either you give women the choice to wear what they want or you take that choice away. Whatever the decision it does need to take account wider social issues and concerns and that includes to some extent religious freedom. I can see how some interpret this as "men either telling women what to wear or what not to wear". Whatever the case, I don't have a problem if the burkha were banned, however the concern that I think many people have is what could be banned next..?
 
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