New EV - Buy or lease (salary sacrifice)?

Nasher said:
EVs really aren't cost effective if your buying new. They are really expensive for not a whole lot of car and depreciate like crazy.

It doesn't come close to offsetting the cost of buying a good, used petrol/diesel.
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Evidence?

It's a line you tout a lot, never with anything to back it up. Most people paid well below RRP for their EVs, and have seen average to good depreciation as a result.
 
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satchef1 said:
Evidence?

It's a line you tout a lot, never with anything to back it up. Most people paid well below RRP for their EVs, and have seen average to good depreciation as a result.
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They are still horrendously expensive when new for what is basically a town car with batteries instead of an engine. Even after the government grant...
 
Nasher said:
They are still horrendously expensive when new for what is basically a town car with batteries instead of an engine. Even after the government grant...
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Can't really disagree with that. Only reason they're selling is because people are prepared to offset running costs against the purchase price. Neither the Kona nor the Leaf are worth their current asking prices really; the Leaf is a tired 2011 design with a few new bells and whistles, and the Kona (in the spec most people would buy) is a £30k small crossover (i.e. not far off double the price of similar petrol/diesel cars). The Zoe isn't too bad; broadly similar pricing to the Clio before adding the battery lease (which is generally a bit cheaper than fuel, for the same milage).

I can't see prices coming down any time soon. Next year will bring a lot more models to the market, but the extra supply will simply be met with extra demand, resulting in no significant increase in competition. There's plenty of people willing to buy an EV when the right one comes along, offsetting running costs against the purchase price to justify the expense.
 
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Nasher said:
EVs really aren't cost effective if your buying new. They are really expensive for not a whole lot of car and depreciate like crazy.

It doesn't come close to offsetting the cost of buying a good, used petrol/diesel.
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What newish, reliable petrol/diesel would you recommend that would cost ~£10k including servicing & maintenance over 4 years/60k miles?
 
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Interestingly, the Leaf lease appears to have just plummeted... Monthly cost of the Tekna has just dropped by £120! Waiting for a call back to confirm, but if its correct then that's going to be hard to resist! Only issue is having to wait until... February :eek:
 
Haggisman said:
My 2006 Civic is on its last legs, after developing a nasty rattle in 1st/2nd which has been diagnosed as a bearing in the gearbox, so looking at ~£800-1k for a reconditioned box including fitting. This along with various other niggles (suspension needs a refresh, sticking brake calipers, AC doesn't work etc.) has led me down the route of looking for a replacement.

An EV seems to make sense, vast majority of driving will be a daily 25 mile round trip to work and back, plus local driving during the week, e.g. Shopping etc and probably 3-4 times a year a long motorway trip, I've worked out it would "save" me ~£180/month in fuel/tax/insurance. I have driveway parking, so no issues with charging.

So the options I've been looking at are a Zoe or Leaf. The Zoe would be HP or a loan over 5 years, the Leaf would be a 48 month lease through work's salary sacrifice scheme (it's out of budget otherwise).

Cost wise, the Leaf lease would be ~£50-60/month more than the Zoe, however there's no deposit required, so I'd have maybe £1k cash from selling my car which would cover just under half the difference over the term.

Sensible head says the Zoe, since it is cheaper and I would own it at the end, however the Leaf does appear to be the better car, plus the idea of a single payment and hassle free "ownership" does appeal! (all servicing, tyres etc is included).

I guess the other thing to consider is with EV tech still in early stages, do I want to keep the car for 5 years and have the responsibility of ownership, or would it be better to have the ability to just give it back?

I have considered used, looked at a really nice 2016 Leaf the other day, but came to the conclusion that the ~80 mile range was just too low to be practical, so it would need to be a new model.

The cheapest option would obviously be to repair the civic, but how long do I keep throwing money at it before enough is enough?

I've considered a hybrid, but I don't think the cost savings would be enough to make it worthwhile?

I could also spend a couple of £k on another 10 year old car, keep it for 2 years and repeat, but tbh it would be nice for a change to have something decent that's going to last and not have the constant worry of it throwing up a huge bill out of nowhere! I figure with the cost saving in fuel, tax etc. £150-200/month is a bargain for a brand new car

In this situation would you buy the Zoe or lease the Leaf, anything I haven't yet considered?
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Don't get a Leaf yet, they are releasing a new one end of the year/start 2019 that has greater range and thermal protection for batteries so you can use the fastest chargers.

https://www.express.co.uk/life-styl...-2018-E-Plus-new-range-power-new-electric-car
 
One of the issues with electric cars is that they seem to suffer from graphics card syndrome- there is always something better on the horizon if you can just wait 3/6/18 months.

Its likely to be the state of affairs for the next few decades (though once actual range hits 300/400 miles, the need to wait will significantly lessen).
 
Fusion said:
One of the issues with electric cars is that they seem to suffer from graphics card syndrome- there is always something better on the horizon if you can just wait 3/6/18 months.
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I was thinking this exact same thing!

I've just placed the order for the Leaf on a 2 year lease. It was actually the cheapest option, plus the short term means in a couple of years when the tech has moved on I can reassess.

The rapid charging issue is unlikely to affect me much, I can't remember the last time we did more than 200 miles in a day, and over that distance 1-2 charges should be enough.
 
Haggisman said:
Interestingly, the Leaf lease appears to have just plummeted... Monthly cost of the Tekna has just dropped by £120! Waiting for a call back to confirm, but if its correct then that's going to be hard to resist! Only issue is having to wait until... February :eek:
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Was this thru work or a lease co?
Can you share the offer you got?
 
This is through the salary sacrifice scheme, so I don't think it's available to the public, might be something to speak to your employer about though ;) The supplier is called Fleet Evolution

The offer I've ordered is £269/month, 24 months/30k miles fully maintained.
 
Fusion said:
One of the issues with electric cars is that they seem to suffer from graphics card syndrome- there is always something better on the horizon if you can just wait 3/6/18 months.

Its likely to be the state of affairs for the next few decades (though once actual range hits 300/400 miles, the need to wait will significantly lessen).
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It has been that way, but I can't see why it would continue. In August 2015, the best <£30k EVs on the market had <24kWh battery packs. In August 2018, the best one has a 60kWh battery pack. During that time, there's been at least one big release every six months; a new or revised model that pushes EVs closer to genuine mass-market practicality.

The next three years are likely to see a transition away from that mindset; battery capacities will start to standardise, the variety of EVs on the market will improve, and there will be greater competition. The release schedule is likely to become no more relevant than it is with petrol/diesel cars today.

Haggisman said:
This is through the salary sacrifice scheme, so I don't think it's available to the public, might be something to speak to your employer about though ;) The supplier is called Fleet Evolution

The offer I've ordered is £269/month, 24 months/30k miles fully maintained.
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Amazing deal. If it was available to the general public, I'd sign today. Can't really be beaten at that price.

Most of the grumbles people have with the new Leaf are based on payments of ~£350-£400/month. At £269, fully maintained, those grumbles become a lot less important :p
 
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Just to add, I wouldn't consider an EV if it was my only car.

Once in a while you want to do a long journey - and it's just a PITA with an electric car.
 
Fusion said:
One of the issues with electric cars is that they seem to suffer from graphics card syndrome- there is always something better on the horizon if you can just wait 3/6/18 months.

Its likely to be the state of affairs for the next few decades (though once actual range hits 300/400 miles, the need to wait will significantly lessen).
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EVs are a new thing and have a LONG way to go before they peak. Where as petrol and diesel have been around over a century and are about as good as they are going to get now. Give it another 10-15 years and EVs might be a true replacement for combustion engined cars. The risk in buying atm is things moving on while you own it and being stuck with a car no one wants.
 
Bug One said:
Just to add, I wouldn't consider an EV if it was my only car.

Once in a while you want to do a long journey - and it's just a PITA with an electric car.
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Depends on the car really...

The Kona and Model 3 LR can do 300 miles on a single charge, which just about gets me from Chelmsford (where I live) to Newcastle-Upon-Tyne up North
or
Newquay in the South West.

There's no way I could do that without stopping for a toilet/food break, so even 30 minutes to rest at services will allow me to top up the car quite a lot anyway.

If my company is doing well when the Benefit in Kind tax drops to 2% in 2020, I'll be contract hiring a decent EV as soon as I can. Plus in 18 months time there will be even more choice.
 
I did Stoke(ish) to St Austell in a 24kWh Leaf recently. It wasn't much fun. But a car with twice the range would pull it off without much hassle. The Kona or Model 3 LR would be a doddle; one optional charge while stopping for lunch.

In all honesty, I can't wait to ditch this car for something with more range. It's great for 98% of the journeys I make. For the other 2%, it takes a lot of patience. I'm currently sat in a hotel, having a coffee while I wait on it charging because my destination is 8 miles away and my car only had 15% charge left; I didn't want to risk it. It isn't an uncommon occurrence if the day involves more than ~60 miles of travel.

Before anyone asks, I put up with it because it's cheap. I used to pay about £120/month to run a petrol car (all in, i.e. fuel, tax, etc.). The Leaf costs me about £170 all in. And depreciation (so far) has been negligible; I got a WBAC quote last week for £300 less than I paid for the car 9 months ago. A main dealer would likely pay a bit more (they'll bundle the car with a 1 year warranty and two years of servicing, then sell it for £1k-£1.5k more than an independent dealer). For now, in my current financial situation, it's worth the occasional annoyance.
 
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VincentHanna said:
Depends on the car really...

The Kona and Model 3 LR can do 300 miles on a single charge.
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Yes, but no one here is talking about those cars. We're talking about cars that are available now, and don't cost a lot up front. So cars with half that range - and potential issues fast charging them if they intend to do more than 300 miles.

For example - I drove to the South of France last week. I drove to Northumbria (~500 miles) in January - and intend to drive to Germany later in the year. I wouldn't try to do any of that in an EV.
 
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