MOT Major Defect, Really?!?

[Hotwired]

Just googled what a section 59 is! the police have way too much power with that!

It's for difficult to pin down but disruptive drivers+cars looking for cheap thrills and attention on public roads at others expense.

Quite a powerful solution to the fact that it's otherwise unrealistic for police to do anything about the above despite complaints.

All about trust.

 

[inflames]

Well this is making me have second thoughts on making my 650i a bit louder, by removing the centre resonators and replacing them with a X pipe.
I have had sports exhausted on many of my previous cars, i am ashamed to admit if i even had one fitted to my first car what was a 1.4RT renault clio, trust me i am no chav, it was just the done thing back then. I look back and think how stupid it sounded. Had them on MR2's and never had an issue with MOT's the the past.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Its an age thing I think, on both my celica and impreza i had sports exhausts
The celica was mild steel so not so bad, but the scoob was full stainless from turbo back. I had to get the center cat put back in for MOT purposes.
The celica did however have a sound system in that my mates rekoned they could hear from about a mile away

Scoob was certainly a tad excessive. Luckily I never had a job or social life that meant I was out particular unsocial hours. Now I look back i do wonder if some of the friction I had with the neighbours was car related

 

[Entai]

yeah, i know it's massive, which is why i was v surprised when i considered the difference between track limits and that comment.

Looking at the EU regulation No 540/2014 there is a banding for bigger engines (so I guess the super car exemption you mentioned)

dB limit for engine size for the next few years:

rated engine power....2016....2022....2026
≤150kW ...................76........74.......73
150 to 250kW.............78........77.......76
>250kW.....................80........78.......77

This looks like it's measured at 0.5m from the exhaust tip, at 45° to one side, with throttle at 50%.

for ref, for a MOT test today, as 2016 cars are too new, the limits (set in 2007):
<75kW - 77dB
75 to 150kW - 78dB
>150kW - 80dB

But, I would imagine kit cars, or possibly small quantity, might be exempt? it's a 65 page pdf and i don't have the desire to self-harm enough to wade through it all...

so, with the way the MOT is worded - that it can't be louder than "standard" then surely the above dB values are a limit for cars produced post 2016. But, I would well imagine some cars are above this when stock...

That EU Regulation is mainly for drive by noise tests.

The db level limits in that regulation are calculated by an equation consisting of the drive by levels, stationary levels, both at constant engine speeds and accelerating and decelerating levels, also various weighting factors are used to set a generic level for all vehicles.

The readings are also taken at very different engine speeds to the engine speed used during an MOT test.

Basically put, you cannot use those levels as a comparison for an MOT.

 

[DereksDontRun]

Well this is making me have second thoughts on making my 650i a bit louder, by removing the centre resonators and replacing them with a X pipe.
I have had sports exhausted on many of my previous cars, i am ashamed to admit if i even had one fitted to my first car what was a 1.4RT renault clio, trust me i am no chav, it was just the done thing back then. I look back and think how stupid it sounded. Had them on MR2's and never had an issue with MOT's the the past.

realistically, the MOT/law for exhaust has been the same for years (I think the only thing new is the check for particulate filters), so if you've got a friendly MOT tester, then you can just keep doing that. For years it has been a fail for any cat removal even if emissions are ok (even changing headers and removing 1st cat is a fail), I think it's also a fail for non BS/kite-marked components (and lot of aftermarket parts aren't kitemarked). So, yeah, carry on regardless, but keep it in mind that it's technically naughty if you get found out (in the same way change exhaust without declaring it to insurance) - so the old "I didn't know, as it was like that when I bought it".

That EU Regulation is mainly for drive by noise tests.

The db level limits in that regulation are calculated by an equation consisting of the drive by levels, stationary levels, both at constant engine speeds and accelerating and decelerating levels, also various weighting factors are used to set a generic level for all vehicles.

The readings are also taken at very different engine speeds to the engine speed used during an MOT test.

Basically put, you cannot use those levels as a comparison for an MOT.

cheers for the info. yeah, (in the way I mentioned 50% throttle) I assumed it was completely different revs/conditions to the usual MOT emissions conditions. But, if there are EU regulations and specific dB that manufacturers are meant to stay under, and that tracks can somehow measure dB for drive by limits, then surely it's not beyond the wit of man to come up with a dB limit for MOT?

 

[Dis86]

It's for difficult to pin down but disruptive drivers+cars looking for cheap thrills and attention on public roads at others expense.

Quite a powerful solution to the fact that it's otherwise unrealistic for police to do anything about the above despite complaints.

All about trust.

Pretty good summary of it.

 

[Malt_Vinegar]

Well this is making me have second thoughts on making my 650i a bit louder, by removing the centre resonators and replacing them with a X pipe.
I have had sports exhausted on many of my previous cars, i am ashamed to admit if i even had one fitted to my first car what was a 1.4RT renault clio, trust me i am no chav, it was just the done thing back then. I look back and think how stupid it sounded. Had them on MR2's and never had an issue with MOT's the the past.

I am thinking of fitting a pair of activated valves in my 750i, around the mid section. Then I can flip a switch, and have LOUD v8 goodness.

My father in law has a similar system fitted to his V8, and it is incredible!

 

[inflames]

realistically, the MOT/law for exhaust has been the same for years (I think the only thing new is the check for particulate filters), so if you've got a friendly MOT tester, then you can just keep doing that. For years it has been a fail for any cat removal even if emissions are ok (even changing headers and removing 1st cat is a fail), I think it's also a fail for non BS/kite-marked components (and lot of aftermarket parts aren't kitemarked). So, yeah, carry on regardless, but keep it in mind that it's technically naughty if you get found out (in the same way change exhaust without declaring it to insurance) - so the old "I didn't know, as it was like that when I bought it".

I always declare any mod's its not worth the risk.

I am thinking of fitting a pair of activated valves in my 750i, around the mid section. Then I can flip a switch, and have LOUD v8 goodness.

My father in law has a similar system fitted to his V8, and it is incredible!

That has been something i have also considered at least that way you can make it quieter when needed.

 

[Kreeeee]

Problem with metering it is the rules are anything louder than stock, which would kill aftermarket exhausts.

I dont get it myself. Within reason a car is your property and you should be free to change what you want, as long as it doesnt make it unsafe.

We should encourage car modification- makes people more willing to keep hold of cars that they've personalised to themselves.

The problem with that opinion is that you do not own the environment that everyone has to live in. If your modifications increase pollution (including sound pollution) what right do you have to force that onto others just because you own the car?

 

[DereksDontRun]

I always declare any mod's its not worth the risk.

I wasn't meaning to suggest you don't, I was just thinking of the irony for declaring a mod for a something that would be a MOT fail and thus advertising to the insurance company it's legally "unroadworthy" - in your case, removing the resonators would be a mod to increase the noise, and thus technically a MOT fail, if that makes sense (same applies for cat removal). I'm just thinking aloud, wondering how the insurance company would deal with an incident where the car had declared mods (so fine for insurance) but those mods get highlighted by any police/investigators that claim the car is legally unroadworthy (presumably a jobs worth, or someone really trying to p-off the car's owner, after they were a prat or something like that?!?). yeah yeah, i know, it's difficult to image a situation where a cat delete could cause an accident, and thus be noticed - but, I could imagine that a silencer/resonator delete making a much louder exhaust contributing to an accident where a horse is spooked and hits a car...

 

[adolf hamster]

The problem with that opinion is that you do not own the environment that everyone has to live in. If your modifications increase pollution (including sound pollution) what right do you have to force that onto others just because you own the car?

because there are loads of things that you can do to be an antisocial **** to your neighbors but people don't do it and when they do there are systems in place to deal with it.

yes its annoying having someone with a loud exhaust revving up and down the neighborhood at 3am but likewise so is a party with drinking shouting and loud music. should we ban loudspeakers just in case someone's a tool and uses them innappropriately?

 

[Diagro]

because there are loads of things that you can do to be an antisocial **** to your neighbors but people don't do it and when they do there are systems in place to deal with it.

yes its annoying having someone with a loud exhaust revving up and down the neighborhood at 3am but likewise so is a party with drinking shouting and loud music. should we ban loudspeakers just in case someone's a tool and uses them innappropriately?

A party is once in a while. A car is more likely to be a daily basis type annoyance.

 

[adolf hamster]

A party is once in a while. A car is more likely to be a daily basis type annoyance.

not spent much time in the wrong neighborhood then

 

[Hagar]

As a teenager I had a Tribsa 650 chop with straight through drag pipes and removeable baffles. Trouble was I was pulled more often than not and produced documents at most of the local police stations most weeks. A waste of time, they knew my face as soon as I walked through the door.

Later on my 3 litre Capri had twinned mini cooper sports exhausts fitted but very quickly removed and back to stock. Mainly for the same reasons as given above.

 

[robj20]

Had a screamer pipe on my RS Turbo that was loud when on boost but nice and quiet when you wanted it to be, really easy to turn off for MOT time as well.

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

because there are loads of things that you can do to be an antisocial **** to your neighbors but people don't do it and when they do there are systems in place to deal with it.

yes its annoying having someone with a loud exhaust revving up and down the neighborhood at 3am but likewise so is a party with drinking shouting and loud music. should we ban loudspeakers just in case someone's a tool and uses them innappropriately?

That's really NOT a great analogy, as clearly you CAN be prosecuted for being too loud out of hours.
As almost all exhausts are set with the volume at FULL all the time, fitting an anti-social exhaust is clearly not a very clever choice.
After all, it's hardly as though there's been nothing in the media suggesting that you shouldn't do it.

You might as well try wandering through security at an airport making jokes about carrying a handgun. It's not an "if", more a question of "when" will you get pulled.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

Sounds like the OP just got unlucky with the tester and car. Haven’t had any problems with mine that has an x pipe in place of resonator and secondary cats, but then I also have exhaust flaps that can be opened or closed to control the noise.

My last didn’t have exhaust flaps and used to disturb the neighbours, but no one made a fuss about it. If you can’t deal with it, move away from other houses.

 

[ubersonic]

I think everyone's missed the point where its got a TURBO-BACK exhaust therefore no CAT which is an instant fail anyway.

Indeed, with a straight run from the turbo it's going to be very loud and due to it's age (or lack thereof) decatting it is an auto fail like you say.

My import is 3" decat all the way through to the tip. Passed no problems

If it's the one in your sig it takes a more relaxed emissions test and the new MOT rules about cat removal don't apply to it.

 

[Tee Hee Johnson]

I hate loud exhausts, even on 'nice' cars, I can't help but think chav no matter what noise is being made.

I usually physically grimace.

 

[adolf hamster]

That's really NOT a great analogy, as clearly you CAN be prosecuted for being too loud out of hours.
As almost all exhausts are set with the volume at FULL all the time, fitting an anti-social exhaust is clearly not a very clever choice.

my point is that just because your car has a loud exhaust doesn't mean you're being anti-social if you don't drive it out of hours all the time, same way a loud hi-fi isn't anti social if you aren't blasting music out at max volume at 3am every night.

there's a difference between a chav cruising round housing estates at 1am at 15mph revving the nuts off his straight pipe 1l and the guy with a harley that goes for a nice run in the countryside of a sunday afternoon.

yes there should be limits absolutely, and i agree that these should be tested, but the current system blanket stated no louder than the original system, even if a different car can be significantly louder from the factory.

lets say the maximum limit for a factory car is 80db, well any modified exhaust would need to be no louder than that, and if it's being used antisocially then deal with that rather than just blanket banning everything.