Telling women to smile is not OK.

Yadda said:
I think the second paragraph is probably quite close to how she feels about it. That's a guess of course, because as a man it's very difficult for me to imagine what it feels like from a woman's perspective. You say "if it was the former then..." and "if it was the latter then...". How would you (or she) know?

I haven't seen her cry about it. All I've seen is her video in the OP in which she seems very calm.
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I don't know how I'd know really, I think sometimes you just know, call it instinct.

But I don't really think the actual reasons for somebody making an approach are relevant, you make a decision to respond in what ever way suits, there's no issues either way.

I think it's all down to peoples personality and insecurities as to why they feel unsettled that somebody has actually communicated with them in whatever form.

maybe crying was the wrong thing to say
 
Fubsy said:
There's a difference to appearing to be disinterested with actually being disinterested. Hard to prove, and if something "has to be done" about what someone looks like naturally, then good luck.
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Normally the two go hand in hand, especially if it's bad enough for someone to make a comment or complain about it. Obviously you can tell if someone just has a resting bitch face but is helpful and polite, compared to someone who says nothing and is deliberately unhelpful.
 
Janesy B said:
No it's part of the same set of predatory behaviours that women have to put up with more so then men. Leaving notes is creepy, and any shyness probably stems from the intentions the note leaver has. And how many times have you need told you should smile because you are beautiful via a note left by someone leaving the train rather than someone genuinely saying cheer up because they can see you're having a bad time. I'd feel uneasy if someone studied me enough to work out I should be smiling, and then the time taken to think up of a note. Just doesn't sit well with me.

Have you ever left a similar note for a woman, and if not, why haven't you?



No it's part of customer service and if I have people complaining that the staff they are dealing with are disinterested something has to be done, it's part of the standards and rules outlined under an employee handbook that are agreed as part of the terms of employment. Different to what people can do in their own time.
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Why is leaving a note creepy? It's different but just another form of communication
 
JBuk said:
I don't know how I'd know really, I think sometimes you just know, call it instinct.

But I don't really think the actual reasons for somebody making an approach are relevant, you make a decision to respond in what ever way suits, there's no issues either way.

I think it's all down to peoples personality and insecurities as to why they feel unsettled that somebody has actually communicated with them in whatever form.

maybe crying was the wrong thing to say
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The reasons might not be relevant to us but considering the hassle that women get from creeps, I would guess that they look at these situations differently. I can't blame them for that.
 
Janesy B said:
Normally the two go hand in hand, and if it's bad enough for someone to make a comment or complain about it. Obviously you can tell if someone just has a resting bitch face but is helpful and polite, compared to someone who says nothing and is deliberately unhelpful.
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It can't be proven though. I'm not talking about "bitch" face either, literally some customers expect a smiley happy person wherever they go just for them. It's totally unrealistic and griped me no end in my earlier life in retail. It makes people mentally ill trying to keep that "mask" up all the time. I could stack shelves, sweep floors, face up, serve customers etc all day every day without issue, but doing all that with a forced smile on my face? If I tried I was wiped and mentally jaded after 2-3 hours of it. It is not my natural state to be smiley and happy, whereas some people (generally I found it to be female colleagues) were naturally that way.

In bricks and mortar stores people seem to want happy people rather than competent people. It makes me glad I'm out of that world.
 
JBuk said:
Why is leaving a note creepy? It's different but just another form of communication
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Why would someone be so compelled to communicate with someone but not actually be around for their reaction? The note says wait 10 seconds and then open, so straight away the real comment was hidden until he was out of sight.

Fubsy said:
It can't be proven though. I'm not talking about "bitch" face either, literally some customers expect a smiley happy person wherever they go just for them. It's totally unrealistic and griped me no end in my earlier life in retail. It makes people mentally ill trying to keep that "mask" up all the time. I could stack shelves, sweep floors, face up, serve customers etc all day every day without issue, but doing all that with a forced smile on my face? If I tried I was wiped and mentally jaded after 2-3 hours of it.
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I understand that, and those people should mind their own business but it's far less creepy as there's a reason for you to be interacting with that person and not just someone random who watched you long enough to think you should be smiling when sat on a train.

The woman doesn't even seem all that upset or offended, she's basically saying leaving notes is a bit weird and saying a face like mine was made to smile is creepy.
 
The smiling aspect is a red herring. And it's more than just a faux pas to leave a note to women these days. Just a few months ago there was a news article about a guy leaving notes to women he admired. He was wanted by police.
 
Janesy B said:
I understand that, and those people should mind their own business but it's far less creepy as there's a reason for you to be interacting with that person and not just someone random who watched you long enough to think you should be smiling when sat on a train.
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I agree.

However, if someone did do that on the train I wouldn't immediately think of it as a negative, why would I? For a woman though, it is different as it justs adds to their feeling of vulnerability when in these places due to no end of stories of perverts on public transport.

The woman doesn't even seem all that upset or offended, she's basically saying leaving notes is a bit weird and saying a face like mine was made to smile is creepy.
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This guy has essentially said to her (in her eyes) that she ought to be smiling for his benefit. It's wrong, but hardly the worst offence on the scale of men being weirdos. It's at the very most a social faux pa, with the issue being that it's being given the same platform elevation as gropings and other devious acts that women endure on public transport.

The man who left the note may be socially awkward, and was trying his best. He could be absolutley horrified by the way this woman has taken his gesture. Or he could be a creep who wanted to make her feel uneasy.
 
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Dis86 said:
Ah yes. The predatory behaviour of walking away.
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Don't predators observe and stalk their prey before attacking? If it's a commuter train it's likely the note leaver has seen her before. The police will arrest men for following women around on the tube, they know the behaviour and understand it can lead to attacks in the future.

Fubsy said:
This guy has essentially said to her that she ought to be smiling for his benefit. It's wrong, but hardly the worst offence on the scale of men being weirdos. It's at the very most a social faux pa.
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Which is probably why it's ended up on a programme called 'The Social'.
 
Janesy B said:
Why would someone be so compelled to communicate with someone but not actually be around for their reaction? The note says wait 10 seconds and then open, so straight away the real comment was hidden until he was out of sight.



I understand that, and those people should mind their own business but it's far less creepy as there's a reason for you to be interacting with that person and not just someone random who watched you long enough to think you should be smiling when sat on a train.

The woman doesn't even seem all that upset or offended, she's basically saying leaving notes is a bit weird and saying a face like mine was made to smile is creepy.
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Like I said earlier it's probably just shyness and maybe they were hoping to stay anonymous whilst failing at trying to advise somebody they looked miserable , I don't find it creepy though
 
Janesy B said:
Which is probably why it's ended up on a programme called 'The Social'.
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True.

The way that some women can react to a man who doesn't act in the completely expected "normal" manner with derision sometimes pushes that man to the outer limits of society where they fester and develop harmful deviency. Sometimes I'd like to see a bit of learning through feedback, we aren't all put on the planet as perfect social beings. That's in the realms of victim blaming though, so clearly a non-starter in this environment and I understand why when you never know what that is prodding you in the back on the tube...
 
I think it’s a shame that in modern society a lot of people’s first reactions to something is to look for some form of ulterior motive or ill intent.
 
CREATIVE!11 said:
I've been told to smile.

Do I get a news article written about me?

Seriously sad this kind of thing is even news....
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It's not "news" exactly.

Here's some blurb on this BBC project, "The Social".

About us
BBC The Social is an award-winning digital team based in Glasgow that develops new creative talent from all across Scotland.


We help develop ideas and commission content to publish across the BBC and our content reaches millions of people every week.

We are always on the lookout for new passionate and creative people across a wide variety of genres including comedy, music, gaming, life, issues and more.

If you want to get into the media or have something new to say, get in touch, we’d love to hear from you.
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So it seems that anyone in Scotland can submit a piece to the team.

Someone should do one about wimminz in Battlefield 5.
 
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