Should life mean life?

robfosters · 11 Oct 2018 at 20:00

asim18 said:
Yeah if the person is a complete psychopath there is no hope. I have met a true psychopath in my time and boy it is very horrifying you do not want to get hooked by one.

The real problem here is that psychopaths have a better chance of being assessed as "no risk to public" because they are, psychopaths; absolute master manipulators.

Therefore this makes it worse for anyone who can be rehabilitated, because it's not impossible, and most people aren't complete psychopaths, I think it's unfair to just forget that some criminals do regret their crimes.

Regretting their crimes doesn’t bring back the person they’ve murdered, it doesn’t undo the pain, heartache and ruined lives of the victims loved ones. You make your bed, you lie in it.

bjorkiii · 11 Oct 2018 at 20:00

Then when they die cremate the ashes and keep them locked up as well. Then they should do it their relatives and neighbours and possibly anybody they actually knew. Once Brexits sorted i hope this becomes statutory law.

cheesyboy · 11 Oct 2018 at 20:01

jsmoke said:
The US is a wealthy country for example and can jail as many for as long as they like for example.

Of course, it doesn't seem to do them much good. Homicide rate is, what, 3 or 4 times ours?

233 · 11 Oct 2018 at 20:11

prisons are an absolute mess,

we insist on locking up people who are of no danger to the public financial crimes etc

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2006/jun/28/uknews
did this bank manager deserve 10 years when you will get less for stamping on someones head and mugging them?

Resident · 11 Oct 2018 at 20:14

Here's an option. Reinstate capital punishment.

1. You get rid of someone who is never going to be rehabilitated and never become a useful member of society.

2. You're saving on the costs of keeping them fed, watered and warm in a cushy comfortable prison.

Murderers, rapists and 3 strikers of violent crimes get the chop

B@Th*nG · 11 Oct 2018 at 20:29

Resident said:
Here's an option. Reinstate capital punishment.

1. You get rid of someone who is never going to be rehabilitated and never become a useful member of society.

2. You're saving on the costs of keeping them fed, watered and warm in a cushy comfortable prison.

Murderers, rapists and 3 strikers of violent crimes get the chop

2. You're not actually. You have to go through so many appeals and such a lengthy process AND allow time for new evidence that it costs more to kill them than keep them alive.

B@

gary996 · 11 Oct 2018 at 20:31

As much as I like the idea of the death penalty, you would have to be 100% sure they did it, as you can't bring them back if it's found the DNA results were wrong.
I think prison should be hard time. You dig holes (or something) then fill them back in again for 10 hours a day. Then you go back to your small cell with 5 others and wait till the next day to start all over again.
Yes they get food, no menu just one choice. If you don't like it wait for tomorrow's meal

[FnG]magnolia · 11 Oct 2018 at 20:34

Resident said:
Here's an option. Reinstate capital punishment.

1. You get rid of someone who is never going to be rehabilitated and never become a useful member of society.

2. You're saving on the costs of keeping them fed, watered and warm in a cushy comfortable prison.

Murderers, rapists and 3 strikers of violent crimes get the chop

It's not the route that most civilised countries take.

Should the UK reduce itself to such a standard is up to your political leanings.

cheesyboy · 11 Oct 2018 at 20:42

bjorkiii said:
Then when they die cremate the ashes and keep them locked up as well.

enkoda · 11 Oct 2018 at 20:46

gary996 said:
As much as I like the idea of the death penalty, you would have to be 100% sure they did it, as you can't bring them back if it's found the DNA results were wrong.
I think prison should be hard time. You dig holes (or something) then fill them back in again for 10 hours a day. Then you go back to your small cell with 5 others and wait till the next day to start all over again.
Yes they get food, no menu just one choice. If you don't like it wait for tomorrow's meal

The Lee Rigby case is a watertight example of how the death penalty could be imposed - multiple eyewitnesses, multiple mobile phone footage, live CCTV coverage, suspects remaining/arrested on scene, etc.

ianh · 11 Oct 2018 at 20:47

[FnG]magnolia said:
It's not the route that most civilised countries take.

Should the UK reduce itself to such a standard is up to your political leanings.

When you have people who can not be rehabilitated, such as the two from the OP, then life incarceration is currently the only option and this could be considered a very large waste of money being spent on people who will never be able to be returned to society.

In that case would it not be preferable to remove that very large financial and manpower burden imposed by looking after criminals of this type and allowing that "wasted" money to instead be put back into the community?

[FnG]magnolia · 11 Oct 2018 at 20:50

enkoda said:
The Lee Rigby case is a watertight example of how the death penalty could be imposed - multiple eyewitnesses, multiple mobile phone footage, live CCTV coverage, suspects remaining/arrested on scene, etc.

An example of revenge, or justice, or eye for an eye, or compensation? What was that case an example of, other than to be a point-to argument for someone who endorses state-sanctioned murder?

cheesyboy · 11 Oct 2018 at 20:51

ianh said:
When you have people who can not be rehabilitated, such as the two from the OP, then life incarceration is currently the only option and this could be considered a very large waste of money being spent on people who will never be able to be returned to society.

In that case would it not be preferable to remove that very large financial and manpower burden imposed by looking after criminals of this type and allowing that "wasted" money to instead be put back into the community?

Money's not a good argument for capital punishment . With the procedures you have to put in place to ensure no miscarriage of justice (ie killing an innocent), it cost a lot more than locking them up for life.

It's just a symbolic thing, the death penalty. And not one I'm keen to see, to be honest

wedrum · 11 Oct 2018 at 20:53

This is where we need a purge, just once a year for 24hrs would solve all this ****

[FnG]magnolia · 11 Oct 2018 at 20:56

ianh said:
When you have people who can not be rehabilitated, such as the two from the OP, then life incarceration is currently the only option and this could be considered a very large waste of money being spent on people who will never be able to be returned to society.

In that case would it not be preferable to remove that very large financial and manpower burden imposed by looking after criminals of this type and allowing that "wasted" money to instead be put back into the community?

This reduces to a human life has a cost element and is it cheaper to just kill someone than use our current judicial and prison system. I get the maths involved here and probably the thinking too - the NHS have a widely publicised factor they incorporate into these decisions - I suppose I just struggle with the thinking that says, "Yep, that guy did [bad thing] therefore he should be put to death." I'm being simplistic on purpose but isn't what this boils down to?

arc@css · 11 Oct 2018 at 21:02

Sickening.

Nasher · 11 Oct 2018 at 21:42

Someone caught on the scene murdering people should just be shot there and then tbh. Don't even bother trying to arrest them.

For the others...dump them all on an uninhabited island in the Outer Hebrides somewhere and do air drops once a week.

But on the flip side, the fact people get put in prison for financial crimes and not paying the TV license is ridiculous. Prisons are supposed to be for people too dangerous to leave on the streets.

Resident · 11 Oct 2018 at 22:10

Moses said:
A life sentence is a life sentence. It just doesn't mean they necessarily spend their life in prison. You want to argue about indeterminate sentences, whole life orders, etc.

It costs more to execute someone than it does to imprison them for life, assuming you want a proper process with an appropriate first trial, appeals, etc. Even then you end up with miscarriages of justice.

A single Glock 17 round doesn't cost nearly 1.2 million. In fact neither does two, just to make sure

asim18 · 11 Oct 2018 at 22:20

robfosters said:
Regretting their crimes doesn’t bring back the person they’ve murdered, it doesn’t undo the pain, heartache and ruined lives of the victims loved ones.

Nor does killing the murderer.

[FnG]magnolia · 11 Oct 2018 at 22:27

Resident said:
A single Glock 17 round doesn't cost nearly 1.2 million. In fact neither does two, just to make sure

Go on then. How does justice work in Resident's planet?