Marrakech in Nov? Or somewhere else?

Hey man thanks a lot for the recommendation. Still haven't booked accomodation yet so will definitely look into that! When did you go mate? Was it very wnidy?

we were the last on the bus to get off. They're are some right nasty looking places. Because it was me and gf wanted somewhere nice. And we were really happy when we got to our stop.
It was windy out on the flats. But I don't remember it being an issue. Or distracting.
I think we did everything on the island there was too so in 10 days without rushing.

Much of the place looks run down and under construction. But I don't think there's anywhere else that isn't really expensive but has that heat and its safe.

Was 2 years ago this December.
 
Out of interest, why?

And also where do you normally go on holiday?

Well, obviously we all have our opinions, but ours was that Marakech is a rip off, boring inauthentic dump. UNESCO world heritage site my ****. The medina is full of overpriced tat that you could buy cheaper in TKMAXX. The food is awful - In the Riads: Tagine, or, Tagine.... or posh western food in the typical chain hotels. There is a nice looking mosque that you can’t actually go in, the saadian tombs are boring, and not remotely impressive. The Menara “Gardens” are not gardenlike - it is basically just a brown stagnant pond full of dead fish with a knackered old stone turret at one end. The “luxury” hotels and restaurants are 4star at best, so even that’s not a worthwhile option.

Also, once you’ve seen 30 seconds of snake charming you’ve seen enough to do you for the rest of your life. Finally, you can join the baying crowds in the main square at night and pay to watch the local scum make a special needs kid balance a jar on his head, or drag a drugged up monkey around on a chain, if that’s what you like.

A truly awful place, total waste of time and money. If you want to go to a UNESCO site, try Angkor Wat, Halong Bay or the Canadian rockies.

As for holidays, usually a mix of nice places and adventurous. Recently skiing in the alps, countries in south east Asia, south of France, Italy, other parts of Europe, Canada, Dubai.

I honestly think that some people can’t admit to themselves that they’ve had a bad holiday. We’ve had a couple, Egypt, Marakech notably. It’s hard to agree that it was a waste of time and money, but at least it helps you make better decisions in the future and decide who not to listen to for holiday tips....
 
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Well, obviously we all have our opinions, but ours was that Marakech is a rip off, boring inauthentic dump. UNESCO world heritage site my ****. The medina is full of overpriced tat that you could buy cheaper in TKMAXX. The food is awful - In the Riads: Tagine, or, Tagine.... or posh western food in the typical chain hotels. There is a nice looking mosque that you can’t actually go in, the saadian tombs are boring, and not remotely impressive. The Menara “Gardens” are not gardenlike - it is basically just a brown stagnant pond full of dead fish with a knackered old stone turret at one end. The “luxury” hotels and restaurants are 4star at best, so even that’s not a worthwhile option.

Also, once you’ve seen 30 seconds of snake charming you’ve seen enough to do you for the rest of your life. Finally, you can join the baying crowds in the main square at night and pay to watch the local scum make a special needs kid balance a jar on his head, or drag a drugged up monkey around on a chain, if that’s what you like.

A truly awful place, total waste of time and money. If you want to go to a UNESCO site, try Angkor Wat, Halong Bay or the Canadian rockies.

As for holidays, usually a mix of nice places and adventurous. Recently skiing in the alps, countries in south east Asia, south of France, Italy, other parts of Europe, Canada, Dubai.

I honestly think that some people can’t admit to themselves that they’ve had a bad holiday. We’ve had a couple, Egypt, Marakech notably. It’s hard to agree that it was a waste of time and money, but at least it helps you make better decisions in the future and decide who not to listen to for holiday tips....

I’d argue the latter paragraph drives home the thing I was wondering when I asked - a very westernized holiday sense (I’d class Dubai and the places you mentioned in SE Asia as westernized because the cultural differences for tourists at least are much less of a variation.

I don’t disagree with some of your sentiment though, I find tourist Egypt a caricature itself, the same with the most tourist centric parts of Marrakech. Those places are full of people wanting to take advantage of tourists with money. Not that it’s unique to Africa, but the way it’s done is different on every continent. Those locations are very different to the “real” parts of each country - the places where people ignore you and go about their daily lives.

Personally I try and avoid those locations too, aiming to transition through those locations as fast as possible for many of the reasons you mention above. That doesn’t necessarily mean if I’m in those locations I don’t find them interesting, you just need to realize they’re that kind of experience.

I had a nice few days in Marrakech when I was there at the end of a trip, but then I knew what kind of trip it was going to be (and tbh the hotel I stayed in was fine, better than many other locations I’ve been to).

Sure, somewhere like Cyprus or other European country may be “nicer”, but then you miss the experience and culture that is part of the reason to go to Morocco in the first place.

Too many people like sanitized holidays now - they want the “western” experience while going to a country with a distinctly different culture.

Either way, actually explaining why you don’t like somewhere is better than a short sentence saying it’s crap. Your idea of crap is something others wouldn’t bat an eye at, and potentially enjoy.
 
Been doing some reading and think we will avoid it. I think my gf would hate it being feminist.
And I was dubious. I dont vreally want to go there. Its more that places are limited where you can get winter sun without the big price tag.
Too many mixed reviews for my liking. Especially for a holiday, which I want to be stress free.

Thanks for the input to the OPs thread. Think I'll try for a last minute holiday to Mexico, Seychelles or maybe Cape Verde again on different island.
 
Morocco is a rough place for women, they get constantly harassed, I wouldn't go there unless you plan to stay on a resort.
 
Too many mixed reviews for my liking. Especially for a holiday, which I want to be stress free.
I'm starting to feel the same way, thanks everyone for their input. Sometimes the girlfriend and I want an adventure, sometimes we want a holiday. We're not sure where Morocco sits on that scale, but it sounds like it's leaning towards the former (i.e. great culture but possibly hard work). Each to their own, there's a young(er) girl who sits behind me at work who loved Marrakech.

As for my holiday plans, well everything has changed. I've picked up a last minute deal to the US to see some of my family. Not terribly exciting, but I'll get some sunshine at least. Marrakech will likely stay on the last, but with the responses above it's sort of dipped down a bit. Above all else, I hate trying to experience culture in a foreign country, and instead having some faux-experience rammed down my throat where you just feel that everyone involved is cynically ripping you off.
 
I’d argue the latter paragraph drives home the thing I was wondering when I asked - a very westernized holiday sense (I’d class Dubai and the places you mentioned in SE Asia as westernized because the cultural differences for tourists at least are much less of a variation.

I don’t disagree with some of your sentiment though, I find tourist Egypt a caricature itself, the same with the most tourist centric parts of Marrakech. Those places are full of people wanting to take advantage of tourists with money. Not that it’s unique to Africa, but the way it’s done is different on every continent. Those locations are very different to the “real” parts of each country - the places where people ignore you and go about their daily lives.

Personally I try and avoid those locations too, aiming to transition through those locations as fast as possible for many of the reasons you mention above. That doesn’t necessarily mean if I’m in those locations I don’t find them interesting, you just need to realize they’re that kind of experience.

I had a nice few days in Marrakech when I was there at the end of a trip, but then I knew what kind of trip it was going to be (and tbh the hotel I stayed in was fine, better than many other locations I’ve been to).

Sure, somewhere like Cyprus or other European country may be “nicer”, but then you miss the experience and culture that is part of the reason to go to Morocco in the first place.

Too many people like sanitized holidays now - they want the “western” experience while going to a country with a distinctly different culture.

Either way, actually explaining why you don’t like somewhere is better than a short sentence saying it’s crap. Your idea of crap is something others wouldn’t bat an eye at, and potentially enjoy.

Alright, Indiana Jones - I'll bite. It was fairly obvious what you were getting at and I think you were hoping I'd say Benidorm...

So, what exactly do you mean by: "a very westernised holiday sense"? Personally, we wouldn't consider ourselves to have a "westernised holiday sense", but I'll humour you. Where would someone have to go and what would they have to do not to have this "westernised holiday sense"? Are we talking about trekking in Yemen, Segwaying in Pyongyang old town?

What do you mean by "too many people like sanitised holidays?". It's a holiday and I don't think anyone should feel the need to defend how and where they spend their hard-earned leave and money or aim to achieve some intangible goal of being considered and enlightened non-westernised traveller.

Do you know what the worst part of travelling in my 20s was? It was listening to the endless supply of identikit bores on every beach and bus who would communicate in clichés and bang on incessantly about how they'd been "off the tourist trail" to experience the "real [enter country name here]". Funnily enough, they all told similar stories. There is a general rule that is worth keeping in mind - In 2018, it's easy and generally affordable to get anywhere, within reason. If people don't go somewhere it's probably because it's not worth making the effort to go. There is a lack of supply because there is a lack of demand. On the flipside, places visited by lots of people are not necessarily always worth visiting, which is where Marakech falls, in my opinion. Gone are the days when trekking to Machu Picchu was something to tell all your friends about. These days "I went off the beaten track" is less about actually seeing something worthwhile and more about trying to claim bragging rights. However, unless you made tea with water from a tap in Chernobyl or narrowly escaped being eaten by a velociraptor on Isla Nublar, nobody actually cares.

For many people, a trip to Marakech would simply not be worth the effort. It is an unmitigated dump. It offers nothing that you can't get anywhere else and is not the authentic cultural experience you might expect. I should have listened to my old man. He spent 3 months there doing research in the 70s and said it wasn't even worth the visit then.

I stand by my point that some people can’t admit to themselves that they’ve had a bad trip.
 
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Been doing some reading and think we will avoid it. I think my gf would hate it being feminist.
And I was dubious. I dont vreally want to go there. Its more that places are limited where you can get winter sun without the big price tag.
Too many mixed reviews for my liking. Especially for a holiday, which I want to be stress free.

Thanks for the input to the OPs thread. Think I'll try for a last minute holiday to Mexico, Seychelles or maybe Cape Verde again on different island.

How about south Africa? or Antalya southern Turkey
 
Alright, Indiana Jones - I'll bite. It was fairly obvious what you were getting at and I think you were hoping I'd say Benidorm...

So, what exactly do you mean by: "a very westernised holiday sense"? Personally, we wouldn't consider ourselves to have a "westernised holiday sense", but I'll humour you. Where would someone have to go and what would they have to do not to have this "westernised holiday sense"? Are we talking about trekking in Yemen, Segwaying in Pyongyang old town?

What do you mean by "too many people like sanitised holidays?". It's a holiday and I don't think anyone should feel the need to defend how and where they spend their hard-earned leave and money or aim to achieve some intangible goal of being considered and enlightened non-westernised traveller.

Do you know what the worst part of travelling in my 20s was? It was listening to the endless supply of identikit bores on every beach and bus who would communicate in clichés and bang on incessantly about how they'd been "off the tourist trail" to experience the "real [enter country name here]". Funnily enough, they all told similar stories. There is a general rule that is worth keeping in mind - In 2018, it's easy and generally affordable to get anywhere, within reason. If people don't go somewhere it's probably because it's not worth making the effort to go. There is a lack of supply because there is a lack of demand. On the flipside, places visited by lots of people are not necessarily always worth visiting, which is where Marakech falls, in my opinion. Gone are the days when trekking to Machu Picchu was something to tell all your friends about. These days "I went off the beaten track" is less about actually seeing something worthwhile and more about trying to claim bragging rights. However, unless you made tea with water from a tap in Chernobyl or narrowly escaped being eaten by a velociraptor on Isla Nublar, nobody actually cares.

For many people, a trip to Marakech would simply not be worth the effort. It is an unmitigated dump. It offers nothing that you can't get anywhere else and is not the authentic cultural experience you might expect. I should have listened to my old man. He spent 3 months there doing research in the 70s and said it wasn't even worth the visit then.

I stand by my point that some people can’t admit to themselves that they’ve had a bad trip.

This post is fantastic, is there anything worse than a British holiday snob keen to point out how they don't travel to Benidorm, as if they're above everyone else. Hilarious they don't realise they're a cliché themselves.
 
we have booked a family week away to Teneriffe end November.

I think we paid around £1400 for me and the wife, 4yo daughter and baby.

Expecting around mid 20's for temperature wise.

Had some family go to morocco and wouldn't go back, just didn't like it although that's personal preference.

Went last year at the end of November - the first week in Dec. By the second week, it was starting to get into Jumper time at night. Daytime was fine though/
 
Each to their own, there's a young(er) girl who sits behind me at work who loved Marrakech.

I quite liked it too. i've been to india 3 times, thailand for a few weeks, so i know what to expect in places like this.

Maybe she stayed in new town and avoided old town or maybe she was there with the right group of people or maybe she liked all the male attention.

It's not somewhere I'd recommend going with a female though for the obvious reasons. It's a great destination for stag do's.
 
Alright, Indiana Jones - I'll bite. It was fairly obvious what you were getting at and I think you were hoping I'd say Benidorm...

No, I wasn't actually, but you list of countries was pretty much what I expected...

So, what exactly do you mean by: "a very westernised holiday sense"? Personally, we wouldn't consider ourselves to have a "westernised holiday sense", but I'll humour you. Where would someone have to go and what would they have to do not to have this "westernised holiday sense"? Are we talking about trekking in Yemen, Segwaying in Pyongyang old town?

What do you mean by "too many people like sanitised holidays?". It's a holiday and I don't think anyone should feel the need to defend how and where they spend their hard-earned leave and money or aim to achieve some intangible goal of being considered and enlightened non-westernised traveller.

I'd consider a westernised/sanitised holiday going to well worn big tourist destinations, staying in named higher star hotels, eating in expensive (relative to the country) hotels and complaining about the food... Coincidentally about half of your complaints are related to them... ;)

The issue I have - and apologies if I read your post wrong - is that a lot of people expect to go to a foreign country, because it's warm, or because there's something to see and it to be "England in North Africa", expecting British food, British level/style of hospitality and British culture in general. Those people then complain when they get home that it was disgusting and the people were horrible...

Do you know what the worst part of travelling in my 20s was? It was listening to the endless supply of identikit bores on every beach and bus who would communicate in clichés and bang on incessantly about how they'd been "off the tourist trail" to experience the "real [enter country name here]". Funnily enough, they all told similar stories. There is a general rule that is worth keeping in mind - In 2018, it's easy and generally affordable to get anywhere, within reason. If people don't go somewhere it's probably because it's not worth making the effort to go. There is a lack of supply because there is a lack of demand. On the flipside, places visited by lots of people are not necessarily always worth visiting, which is where Marakech falls, in my opinion. Gone are the days when trekking to Machu Picchu was something to tell all your friends about. These days "I went off the beaten track" is less about actually seeing something worthwhile and more about trying to claim bragging rights. However, unless you made tea with water from a tap in Chernobyl or narrowly escaped being eaten by a velociraptor on Isla Nublar, nobody actually cares.

Shock, horror - maybe they went to different places to you! Or you were just the bore that followed the top 10 in the Lonely Planet guide... ;) There are places that are worth visiting outside of the main tourist spots, and you don't have to be Indiana Jones to go and see them. They are usually a bit harder to get to, in part just because most tours don't take you there, or because taxi drivers expect you to be going somewhere else. Some of the best places I've been to are those such places - sure, they may not be the "best" example, but I'd rather go to the second best, with 1/10th the number of people milling around and none of the annoying hanger ons you may get at the "best" place. Everyone else can easily go to, but most don't...

Your complaint there makes you no better that the people you just complained about. It's nothing to do with going off the "beaten track", rather just avoiding the worst of the excesses in countries that rely heavily on tourism. Do you think the main Market in Marrakesh is representative of Morocco? Do you think Hurghada/Sharm is representative of Egypt? Do you think Covent Garden is representative of England for that matter? No, and in all those places you know you're going to be ripped off with mediocre/expensive food, accommodation and just generally have to deal with all the crap that goes with those locations. Are they worth visiting? Sure. Are they worth basing an entire trip around? Nope, not in my opinion.

For many people, a trip to Marakech would simply not be worth the effort. It is an unmitigated dump. It offers nothing that you can't get anywhere else and is not the authentic cultural experience you might expect. I should have listened to my old man. He spent 3 months there doing research in the 70s and said it wasn't even worth the visit then.

I stand by my point that some people can’t admit to themselves that they’ve had a bad trip.

And I found the opposite. Sure, it wasn't Singapore but it was a lot cleaner than a lot of the north African cities I've been to. It was fine, had some interesting things to see and I would recommend people spend a day or two there to look at things - but I wouldn't necessarily recommend going there specifically (see my first comment in this thread).

Ironically I was expecting to hate it - it was just a couple of days at the end of a trip into the mountains before flying home from the airport there - but in fact it was a pleasant surprise.

Whatever you feel about it, it's much better to actually list the reasons you don't think it's worth going than just saying:

It's the worst place I've ever been. Awful.

To me, that means either you have a very different idea of holidays than I do, or you haven't been many places outside of those "sanitised" locations. And that's the point - just complaining about somewhere without any reference as to what it's being compared to, or why you don't like it, is pointless.
 
Also interested in this thread. Looking for a February holiday (ish) that is warm. Gf doesn't have the funds for Mexico so needs to be somewhere nearer.

I'm also on the fence about Morocco. Best seem to get is 'its pretty ', worst.. 'never would go back'. Which doesnt fill me with confidence.

Have a look at Jack's flight club. (The first rule of flight club is you don't talk about flight club)

They have good bargains if you're reasonably flexible.
 
Over the years, i'm 60, i've been to Morocco quite a few times. In my teens was the first time to Tangier with a group of mates. As a venue it was a bit dreary then, but have been back a few times since and Tangier has completely changed now. Like most places it has areas that as a tourist you really don't want or need to go to, but it is nowdays a very good holiday venue for peeps of all ages. A day trip to Gibraltar is always worthwhile as well.
The last time i went to Morocco though was an out of this world holiday. I booked 4 nights at the Kasbah Tamadot in the foothills of the Atlas mountains. It's owned by Richard Branson, his mum Eve Branson lives in a complex next to the hotel.
It's not cheap at £1000 a night for 2, including breakfast and evening meal. But is easily one of the best hotels in the world. Apart from the beauty of the hotel including the rooms (which are all completely different) is the surroundings..................just magical. All the staff are from the local village and are lovely people that go out of the way to make you feel welcome. Even to the point of asking you in for tea if you happen to walk past their house on an afternoon walk. There is a craft centre near the hotel that has locals working there making jewelry, sculptures, carvings and paintings. The hotel built the centre so as to get as much employment into the area on top of the staff the hotel uses. It's not the usual junk you see in the markets either, high quality stuff made by peeps that really want to be different from the usual market crap.
As you can guess, i love the place and have every intention of going back for as long as i can afford it.
 
Not sure when you went AndyT but the Marrakech you went too sounds very different than the one i went to, the food was great and their are plenty of 5 star hotels...... which ones did u stay at?! The things in market you can't buy in TKMAX? Unless your talking about the knock off clothing which well its fakes what do you expect?
 
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Morocco is a rough place for women, they get constantly harassed, I wouldn't go there unless you plan to stay on a resort.

If argue the opposite. The only place my GF has been pestered in Morocco (been a couple of times) was near a resort. Which makes sense as those kind of people congregate around those areas. Part and parcel with going to a resort tbh.
 
Went last year at the end of November - the first week in Dec. By the second week, it was starting to get into Jumper time at night. Daytime was fine though/

Thanks for that, will maybe take a jumper. Going with a 4 year old and 6 month old so the night time won't be so much of an issue...especially what the temperature will be like back here!
 
South Africa is too far (could go to Seychelles or Mexico for example) I would have thought Turkey would be too cold?

Your right turkey would be cold in November, south Africa should be ok and not to busy its the same flight time to Mexico.
 
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