Panasonic TX-50EX700B / John Lewis

[Armageus]

Bought this TV just over 4 months ago, but recently experiencing a lot of pixelation/blockiness issues with dark content.

I've tried different source content (SD TV/DVD/Blurays/Sky HD downloads), and it's consistent across the board. I've tried various different settings (e.g. recommended ones from AV Forum etc), as well as a factory reset and although it can be reduced to some degree, it's still very visible.

It doesn't appear to be an isolated issue as evidenced over at AVForums:
https://www.avforums.com/threads/panasonic-ex700-owners-thread.2121811/page-27

Have reported to John Lewis who sent an engineer out who essentially said there was "no technical fault", and suggested it was just a case of tweaking settings (although he couldn't tweak the settings to resolve the issue), and consequently John Lewis are saying they cannot do anything even under Consumer Rights as there is no fault and they have fulfilled their obligation to provide a repair.

Despite having escalated to a Customer Manager, all they have been able to suggest is to send further example images, which they will open a case with at Panasonic (which I have now done).

Just wondering if others have had issues dealing with John Lewis, and what the best approach is going forwards.

Some examples:

Spoiler

 

[jpaul]

some thoughts -

Daft question .. how come you didn't remark problem initially ? (how did you explain that to them?)

Looks wrong obviously, the walking dead is a 1080 download from sky, rather than sd ? it looks like a very low bitrate source ?

That kind of banding/haloing might come with 10bit/hdr sources since I believe it has an 8bit+frc panel, but should not be expected on 8bit/SDR/rec709 sky material.

you have taken the picture in the dark, so the phones capabilities maybe contributing , daylight pics maybe more compelling for Panasonic support.

 

[Armageus]

Daft question .. how come you didn't remark problem initially ? (how did you explain that to them?)

I was initially happy with the screen - no other defects, no backlight bleed, HDR looked good e.g. on PS4 Uncharted, and noticed the blockiness/pixellation little if at all. After owning for a little (probably around the 1-2 month period) I noticed it to some degree, but put it mostly down to the large amount of SD TV channels still watched, made some adjustments to contrast/backlight/brightness etc which seemed to improve things to an acceptable level. Recently though it had again become more noticable, whether due to the panel being "burnt in" or whatever or just exaggerated by watching a lot of dark content (due to binge watching Walking Dead)

Looks wrong obviously, the walking dead is a 1080 download from sky, rather than sd ? it looks like a very low bitrate source ?

That kind of banding/haloing might come with 10bit/hdr sources since I believe it has an 8bit+frc panel, but should not be expected on 8bit/SDR/rec709 sky material.

Definitely a 1080 source, but other sources are similar e.g. Bluray.

you have taken the picture in the dark, so the phones capabilities maybe contributing , daylight pics maybe more compelling for Panasonic support.

The "engineer" that came out saw it during day light, which whilst slightly less noticeable was still an issue. His response was essentially these TVs are complicated, you need 4K source material, and you need to constantly change the settings to suit the content being watched (but equally could not demonstrate any settings which resolved the issue).


A bit of hope though - after my earlier conversation with a Manager, I sent over some photos (including those above and others) and a John Lewis senior technician tried ringing me back.
Unfortunately I didn't speak directly to the technician, but got through to another Customer Service advisor who was very helpful, after seeing the Photos admitted that things "didn't look right", and that "she wouldn't accept a TV like that".
She was able to track down what the technician had advised, which was a lot more detailed that the "engineer" who visited had suggested. Including testing the in built TV functionality (i.e. excluding any HDMI devices / AV Receiver etc), as well as some different brightness/contrast levels etc.

I've done some testing tonight, the inbuilt Freeview still suffers from the same issues both on SD and HD Channels. Additionally after testing a handful of different 4K Youtube videos, the same issues still occur (although due to having more pixels, the issue is less prominent). I also signed up for a trial netflix account, and tried a couple of programs on there again with similar issue, but additionally with no option to correct as it's defaulting to HDR which boosts the backlight and contrast to max.

 

[jpaul]

scanning avforum thread, some people seem to have the problems as a result of poor adaptive bitrate external sources (iplayer, wireless netflix),
even observing the problem on dvb could be the aeriel/reception, so allaying this by reproducing on local usb media seems best.

in thread, Cannot see why either replacing panel or power boards could impact it, so would want them to justify that technically before wasting time on it, would just be fobbing you off imhop.

...so cutting to the chase, and suggesting a different model with JL maybe expediant, especially since they tried once already.

 

[Armageus]

Dropped them an email this morning with some photos from my testing last night, and marked it FTAO the two people who were dealing with it yesterday who were actually quite helpful - so will see what happens.

...so cutting to the chase, and suggesting a different model with JL maybe expediant, especially since they tried once already.

That's all I want, just to swap it for a similarly priced model from another Manufacturer - I'd even said I would be happy to be pay a small amount towards the replacement due to me having owned it for a few months, but was told by the customer manager (before photos etc were sent) that because "no fault was found", that replacement/refund wasn't an option.

 

[Armageus]

Spoke to another advisor at JL - despite all my further troubleshooting and photos provided, still unwilling to offer an exchange or refund.

They have arranged for another engineer to come out on Monday (despite me previously being told that as they had sent an engineer out, they had fulfilled their requirement to affect a repair).

Not holding out much hope, but allegedly will be a different engineer.

Next steps after that will be a credit card claim I guess, although not sure what chance that will have if JL are arguing that there is no fault.

Spoiler: 1440P Netflix, 4K Youtube Captain Marvel & Sony Bellagio 4K Demo

 

[MrRockliffe]

Bought this TV just over 4 months ago, but recently experiencing a lot of pixelation/blockiness issues with dark content.

I've tried different source content (SD TV/DVD/Blurays/Sky HD downloads), and it's consistent across the board. I've tried various different settings (e.g. recommended ones from AV Forum etc), as well as a factory reset and although it can be reduced to some degree, it's still very visible.

It doesn't appear to be an isolated issue as evidenced over at AVForums:
https://www.avforums.com/threads/panasonic-ex700-owners-thread.2121811/page-27

Have reported to John Lewis who sent an engineer out who essentially said there was "no technical fault", and suggested it was just a case of tweaking settings (although he couldn't tweak the settings to resolve the issue), and consequently John Lewis are saying they cannot do anything even under Consumer Rights as there is no fault and they have fulfilled their obligation to provide a repair.

Despite having escalated to a Customer Manager, all they have been able to suggest is to send further example images, which they will open a case with at Panasonic (which I have now done).

Just wondering if others have had issues dealing with John Lewis, and what the best approach is going forwards.

Some examples:

Looks a little like compression artefacting After looking at more photos, doesn't seem to be

I would take all the pictures to a JL store and see what they think.

Their customer service team are a bunch of monkeys, and aren't even employed by JL.

Speaking from experience here - I worked there

Store may also have an EX700 in there. Trying out the same content if you can, and compare with their TV, and then other TVs.

If their TV exhibits the same issue, but not other TVs, it's a fault. If their TV doesn't exhibit the issue, it's a fault.

Regardless of whether it's software or hardware.

 

[MrRockliffe]

Also, try a non streaming source - something played from a USB stick.

Try this: https://download.blender.org/durian/movies/

 

[Armageus]

Also, try a non streaming source - something played from a USB stick.

Try this: https://download.blender.org/durian/movies/

Thanks for that, will download that and give it a try later - hopefully it still exhibits the same so I can show the engineer on Monday.

 

[Kelt]

Well, after reading this, when I buy my next TV, it won't be from John Lewis.

 

[ak22]

Well, after reading this, when I buy my next TV, it won't be from John Lewis.

Their customer service is awful I was on the phone for one and half hours trying to get my macbook pro charger repaired. They told me to go buy a charger for my macbook and they will refund it. I could not find the charger even apple didn't sell it on representative told me get 3rd party one... bunch of muppets

 

[jpaul]

looked at the Marvel 4K trailer https://youtu.be/LEAKH-cGbs0?t=19 ?

It's not 10bit/hdr material , just 8bit/sdr/rec709 so should be fine on an 8 bit panel
I see posterization/haloing... on older 8 bit panasonic, so I think this is just par for the course
it's just poor 15Mb/s streamed material (converted from hdr ?) ... maybe those with a 10 bit oleds will comment on what they see. ?

some test patterns ref'd here which should discrimate genuine 10 vs 8bit panel types/issues.


[ ... from the recent news JL finances are not good .. too much price matching ? at least they didn't post a dam xmas add yet ]

 

[Armageus]

2nd Engineer visited early (actually 2 engineers this time).
Both could see the issue (demonstrated on SkyQ HD broadcast - XFactor, and also Neflix), but again almost a dismissal of "no TV is perfect - might just be a technical limitation of the TV".
At least they spent more than 5 minutes here this time, took photos and quite a few details (Although one of them tried arguing that I shouldnt be using 1080i output on SkyQ, and that either 1080P or 720P were better - despite SKY only broadcasting in 1080i - 1080p is just the box deinterlacing rather than the TV).

Fairly sure one of them said they would speak to Panasonic regarding the issue, and that also he would speak to his manager to see what else they could do (as he wouldn't be happy with the TV)

Will wait and see if JL contact me tomorrow, as no point chasing today as they need the engineer's report back first.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

2nd Engineer visited early (actually 2 engineers this time).
Both could see the issue (demonstrated on SkyQ HD broadcast - XFactor, and also Neflix), but again almost a dismissal of "no TV is perfect - might just be a technical limitation of the TV".
At least they spent more than 5 minutes here this time, took photos and quite a few details (Although one of them tried arguing that I shouldnt be using 1080i output on SkyQ, and that either 1080P or 720P were better - despite SKY only broadcasting in 1080i - 1080p is just the box deinterlacing rather than the TV).

Fairly sure one of them said they would speak to Panasonic regarding the issue, and that also he would speak to his manager to see what else they could do (as he wouldn't be happy with the TV)

Will wait and see if JL contact me tomorrow, as no point chasing today as they need the engineer's report back first.

i think it's a setting issue or an electronics issue.

do you have some sort of processing on? noise reduction, etc?

could you post a picture of all the picture settings and advanced picture setting options for your tv?

it's basically forming a block of the same colour. this may be just cheap electronics within the tv and it's not a fault per say. it's the way the tv handles certain signals or all signals.

was the ex700B not a rather cheap tv? how much did you pay for it and what size?

i found the same issue you are having on hisense tv's. basically cheap electronics driving the panels. so it's not faulty it's just a cheap tv and that is what it looks like due to cheap electronics.

 

[Armageus]

i think it's a setting issue or an electronics issue.

do you have some sort of processing on? noise reduction, etc?

May well be a settings issue, but defaults shouldn't produce images with such issues imo. Have tried with all image processing off, and all on and various steps in between.

could you post a picture of all the picture settings and advanced picture setting options for your tv?

Will do when I get a chance.

it's basically forming a block of the same colour. this may be just cheap electronics within the tv and it's not a fault per say. it's the way the tv handles certain signals or all signals.

Not something I've experienced on any other TV though, including many cheaper and/or no name ones.

was the ex700B not a rather cheap tv? how much did you pay for it and what size?

i found the same issue you are having on hisense tv's. basically cheap electronics driving the panels. so it's not faulty it's just a cheap tv and that is what it looks like due to cheap electronics.

50" £499. Clearly not in the league of what some people spend, but also not the cheapest end of what's available. It was a replacement for a 10 year old visitron 42" 1080P that didn't exhibit anything similar.

I've also got other cheaper smaller TVs in the house (24" Toshiba, 22" Polaroid, 32" Samsung) and whilst the black performance etc is considerably worse than the panosonic, at least they don't suffer with pixelation/blocking.

 

[flea.rider]

I know this may sound strange .. but where is the tv on the wall or in a corner? you could be getting interference from plug sockets wires or even steel in the walls ..
it could be the tv is poorly insulated ...
try moving it into a different room see if it persists

 

[Psycho Sonny]

it's either a setting or cheap electronics. £499 on a 50" IMO makes it a budget end tv. it's not mid end as that would be around £700+. high end £1K+ for a 50" unless you got it in a sale or something.

i spent nearly double that on my 43" that i bought 2 years ago. just to give you some comparison. to get the best 43" available at the time.

i've seen it on hisense tv's. i'm afraid if it is cheap electronics there is no fix. it's the fact it's 4K. you wouldn't have had this on older tv's because they were 1080p. it's the scaling chip on the tv which will be crap.

the only solution i can think of is to use the highest input resolution possible to take the processing/scaling away from the tv itself.

do you have an AVR? if so then it could be a setting on there. or you could introduce an AVR and use the processing on that to upscale 1080i to 4K. so the tv doesn't need to do anything.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

I know this may sound strange .. but where is the tv on the wall or in a corner? you could be getting interference from plug sockets wires or even steel in the walls ..
it could be the tv is poorly insulated ...
try moving it into a different room see if it persists

it's not interference. it's blocks or patches of colour. it's a processing thing. interference would have random colours or graphical glitches. i've seen this before on cheap hisense tv's.

this is the problem with reviewers they will be feeding them 4K material.

OP you may have to buy sky Q and use that to upscale to 4K if you can't do any of the above. it will have to be the 4K capable box though i think the cheaper one can't do it.

 

[jpaul]

as suggested, it's down to poor quality low bit-rate/poor-encode, sources, I contend everyone would see it

a screen grab off the marvel utube shows it too ... OK probably a 6bit laptop screen, but an 8/10 bit tv is not going to eradicate macro-blocks & posterization.
If anyone is able to take a picture off of an oled in the dark - that would show best case.

Spoiler: capture

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4885/45847276611_7c5fdae784_o_d.jpg

 

[Psycho Sonny]

as suggested, it's down to poor quality low bit-rate/poor-encode, sources, I contend everyone would see it

a screen grab off the marvel utube shows it too ... OK probably a 6bit laptop screen, but an 8/10 bit tv is not going to eradicate macro-blocks & posterization.
If anyone is able to take a picture off of an oled in the dark - that would show best case.

Spoiler: capture

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4885/45847276611_7c5fdae784_o_d.jpg

I think it's more to do with non native 4k content.

As in a low bit rate 4k file would look okay most likely.

It's the fact it's low bit rate and non native when the TV scaler up scales it's doing a terrible job due to cheap electronics

I would like to see op watch a 4k stream off Netflix or a 4k bluray and see if it shows