Panasonic TX-50EX700B / John Lewis
- Thread starter Armageus
- Start date
It's not though - on anything not dark the TV's scaling is excellent - e.g. Doctor Who in HD was pin sharp - just with blockiness on the black areas e.g. on the title sequence
Only a "budget" Denon X1300W, so no upscaling.
Already have Sky Q - have tried using 4k output from that, and if anything the scaling is worse that the TV's, and it still doesn't resolve issues with blacks
Don't have a 4k Player, and my broadband isn't quick enough for Netflix to stream at 4k - it manages 1440P but there are still issues with black.
On a variety of 4k Youtube content, however there are still issues with black.
The only source I haven't (yet) noticed any issues on is when playing PS4 (1080P).
Whether it's a "cheap" TV or not, no one in the right mind would accept the blacks being blocky/pixellated and at times even flickering - as far as I'm concerned it's not fit for purpose (i.e. displaying a variety of TV Sources and resolutions as you would expect, without significant issues).
My budget for a TV was £500 - there were cheaper TV's available (i.e. several Hisense you mentioned, and an LG that has an odd panel type RGBW?) - the fact that there aren't any 1080P TV's available to buy new is somewhat a moot point - all 4K TV's are therefore expected to scale SD/HD content at this point
Caporegime
- Joined
- 21 Jun 2006
- Posts
- 38,367
If ps4 is fine then it's low bit rate sources that is your issue.
Cheap electronics. I don't think the TV is defective. Its just a TV with poor electronics.
Cheap electronics. I don't think the TV is defective. Its just a TV with poor electronics.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 21 Jun 2006
- Posts
- 38,367
Google crushed blacks.
Sounds like the issue you are having.
Is that correct?
Could be a setting issue if so. It's likely ps4 is using a different signal like limited rgb range.
It's not a black crush issue and not a hdmi full range issue either - it happens on the inbuilt Freeview tuner and built in apps.
It may well be that the TV can't handle low bitrate sources - but in that case it's definitely not fit for purpose as a TV - it's only fit for use as a monitor, if it can only display uncompressed sources without issue (e.g. PS4)
Not heard anything since the engineer visit yesterday, so I've escalated it to the next step - templated consumer rights complaint sent to Head of JL Customer services, stating that I believe the goods to both be Unfit for Purpose, and not of a satisfactory quality.
Will see if anything becomes of it, otherwise next stop will likely be JL Social media and/or Section 75 credit card claim.
Wish me luck
Will see if anything becomes of it, otherwise next stop will likely be JL Social media and/or Section 75 credit card claim.
Wish me luck
I guess you played with all the relevent options, what did you adopt . ? Personally - min, off, Auto, max, dont have, DH, min, DH
I think new tv's do get better hardware/algorithms to support the evolving codecs/bit-rates that now get streamed;
I think new tv's do get better hardware/algorithms to support the evolving codecs/bit-rates that now get streamed;
Adaptive Backlight Control - Off
Ambient sensor - Off
Noise reduction - Off
MPEG Remaster - Off
Resolution Remaster - Off
Dynamic Range Remaster - Off
Intelligent Frame Control - Off
Clear Motion - Off
(also tried with noise reduction, MPEG remaster, resolution remaster all set to max, and various stages inbetween), tried varying Sharpness levels all the way from minimum to maximum.
- Tried both 1080p Pure Direct mode (which is supposed to pass colour space information through unaltered), and 1080p Pixel by 4pixels mode (Which is supposed to just display 2x2 pixels for every input pixel, with no interpolation).
- With Adaptive backlight on min or above, I've tried Contrast Control set to Auto, Off and Custom (with options adjusted to both extremes of the scale allowed)
- Tried Color Gamut settings on Auto/Normal and Native
- Have tried "True Cinema" mode which exposes more options for White Balance and Colour Management and tried several settings for these based on AVForums, and a post here for here relating to an older DX Panasonic - without professional calibration equipment I'm not sure this really would make much difference and makes no difference to the issue (just affects the main picture slightly)
- Firmware is the latest available (and downgrading not an option - assuming it maybe got worse following an update, as have done 3 since owning it, as Apps require the latest firmware)
I'm fairly sure it isn't "Posterisation" as mentioned earlier as it doesn't affect any other graduated colours (e.g. sky scenes), and isn't even consistent across all greys and blacks (e.g. it's random black highlights on an otherwise solid area, or random small black highlights flickering e.g. in dark areas of people's hair etc) .
The 4k marvel photo you posted - yes I get the issue there which I don't claim any TV would be able to solve, but also get larger blotches of "bright" black in the shadow on the rooftop scene, and issues in other scenes.
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Just an update to say that John Lewis still weren't interested in resolving anything, although they did pass it on to panasonic. However, despite having already provided detailed evidence, Panasonic wanted more details and aside from taking the TV away to a service centre (whereby they likely would still come back with a "no fault found" result, and I'd be without a TV).
However I have found some settings that seem to eliminate the main issue (although likely could do with some further fine tuning when I get time) - hopefully they may be helpful to someone who stumble upon this thread.
Unlike the engineers who said that it was "within technical specification" and "that was the best I should expect from a TV of this price" (or lol cheap electronics), then the settings below are a noticeable improvement.
Given how the situation has been handled by John Lewis though, I will not be buying any electricals or similar from them again.
These are the settings I've been using for SkyQ (set to 1080P), and Non-HDR Netflix content - they remove the random black highlights (e.g. on peoples's hair) in dark scenes on the walking dead, and remove the blockiness from e.g. "The Chase" TV programme, even when viewing the SD broadcast (i.e. it looks lower quality as you would expect, but without huge black "minecraft" style pixels in the dark areas)
Viewing Mode: Custom
Backlight: 35
Contrast: 60
Brightness: +5
Colour: 50
Tint: -5
Sharpness: 30
Colour Temperature: Normal
Vivid Colour: Off
Adaptive Backlight Control: Off
Ambient Sensor: Off
Noise Reduction: Off (Greyed Out)
MPEG Remaster: Off (Greyed Out)
Resolution Remaster: Auto
Dynamic Range Remaster: Off (Greyed Out)
Intelligent Frame Creation: Off (Greyed Out)
Clear Motion: Off
Advanced Settings:
Contrast Control: Custom
Contrast Control Setting
Adaptive Gamma Control: 0
Black Expander: 0
Clear White Effect: 0
HDR Brightness Enhancer: Off (Greyed Out)
Colour Gamut: Normal
White Balance: All set to 0
Colour Management: All set to 0
Gamma: 2.2
More Detailed Adjustments: All set to Defaults
Option Settings:
Game Mode: On (Greyed out)
Film Cadence Mode: Off (Greyed out)
1080p Pure Direct: On
4k Pure Direct: Off (Greyed out)
1080p Pixel by 4pixels: Off
HDMI Content Type: All set to Defaults
HDMI EOTF Type: All set to Defaults
HDMI RGB Range: HDMI1 - Full
However I have found some settings that seem to eliminate the main issue (although likely could do with some further fine tuning when I get time) - hopefully they may be helpful to someone who stumble upon this thread.
Unlike the engineers who said that it was "within technical specification" and "that was the best I should expect from a TV of this price" (or lol cheap electronics), then the settings below are a noticeable improvement.
Given how the situation has been handled by John Lewis though, I will not be buying any electricals or similar from them again.
These are the settings I've been using for SkyQ (set to 1080P), and Non-HDR Netflix content - they remove the random black highlights (e.g. on peoples's hair) in dark scenes on the walking dead, and remove the blockiness from e.g. "The Chase" TV programme, even when viewing the SD broadcast (i.e. it looks lower quality as you would expect, but without huge black "minecraft" style pixels in the dark areas)
Viewing Mode: Custom
Backlight: 35
Contrast: 60
Brightness: +5
Colour: 50
Tint: -5
Sharpness: 30
Colour Temperature: Normal
Vivid Colour: Off
Adaptive Backlight Control: Off
Ambient Sensor: Off
Noise Reduction: Off (Greyed Out)
MPEG Remaster: Off (Greyed Out)
Resolution Remaster: Auto
Dynamic Range Remaster: Off (Greyed Out)
Intelligent Frame Creation: Off (Greyed Out)
Clear Motion: Off
Advanced Settings:
Contrast Control: Custom
Contrast Control Setting
Adaptive Gamma Control: 0
Black Expander: 0
Clear White Effect: 0
HDR Brightness Enhancer: Off (Greyed Out)
Colour Gamut: Normal
White Balance: All set to 0
Colour Management: All set to 0
Gamma: 2.2
More Detailed Adjustments: All set to Defaults
Option Settings:
Game Mode: On (Greyed out)
Film Cadence Mode: Off (Greyed out)
1080p Pure Direct: On
4k Pure Direct: Off (Greyed out)
1080p Pixel by 4pixels: Off
HDMI Content Type: All set to Defaults
HDMI EOTF Type: All set to Defaults
HDMI RGB Range: HDMI1 - Full
noted you have discussed this in avforums
https://www.avforums.com/threads/panasonic-ex700-owners-thread.2121811/page-28
seems to be a lack of co-ordination between contributors there, to agree/define specific media they see the problem with,
and anecdotal descriptions lacking rigor.
The pictures shot in the dark on that thread are very susceptible to capabilities of phone used too, which they do not acknowledge.
..not sure why they/pan would not give a temporary set, whilst they examined problem...
providing media to them on a usb would be my approach to reduce ambiguity for their tests.
https://www.avforums.com/threads/panasonic-ex700-owners-thread.2121811/page-28
seems to be a lack of co-ordination between contributors there, to agree/define specific media they see the problem with,
and anecdotal descriptions lacking rigor.
The pictures shot in the dark on that thread are very susceptible to capabilities of phone used too, which they do not acknowledge.
..not sure why they/pan would not give a temporary set, whilst they examined problem...
providing media to them on a usb would be my approach to reduce ambiguity for their tests.