Thoughts on the sony strdn 1080

So reading all this, swapping my Yamaha AX1 for this Sony is a bad idea? No hdmi’s is starting to annoy me heh(sorry for jumping in!)
Again it's difficult to give a yes/no answer because it depends on what your priorities are.

IMO, nothing in a new AV receiver/AV amp on the low side of £1500 will equal the Yamaha for true muscle despite what the spec sheets claim. If you still have the handbook, or you look up the specs on line, you'll see that they measure the power as a minimum of 110W in to 8 Ohms, full audio range, and at 0.015% THD. In other words, the amp isn't breaking a sweat, and still manages to churn out the sort of power specs that folk pay thousands for in Krell and ATI amps.

As £500 AV receivers go, the Sony 1080 is good, but it can't hold a candle to the power that the Yamaha delivers. You can see part of that in the way they measure the power out. They use 6 Ohms rather than 8. That means their 100W/ch in stereo @ 6 Ohms equates to 75W/ch in to 8 Ohms. They also use a higher THD figure. The numbers are very small (0.09 vs 0.015) so it's not easy to see the significance straight off, but there's a difference of a factor of 6. Allowing the amp to distort more is an easy way to get a significantly higher wattage. It's the reason why all those little Chinese T-amps are measured at 10% THD. The 30W or 40W some of them claim equates to 5~7W at 0.1% THD.

What's not covered in the spec sheets is stuff such as the size and rating of the transformer. I'll take nothing away from what the designers have achieved with modern AV amps and receivers. They pack a lot in a box for very little money. But when you lift the lid on some of these older receivers and amps and find that the transformer is capable of delivering twice the amp's claimed power, then you realise just how serious the designers were about the importance of effortless power delivery. Contrast that with modern receivers/amps. Here you'll find that the transformer is typically just enough to deliver the maximum rated power. There's no additional power reserve, and it's why the power output of these amps doesn't change that much when dropping from 8 Ohms (or 6) down to 4. At 4 Ohms, the power supply is being asked to flow twice the amount of current for each recharge cycle (50Hz = 50 times a second for UK mains frequency). It has to do this to keep up with the demand from the 4 Ohm speakers. But if the power supply was already at the red line with the 8 Ohm load then there's nothing left in the pot to satisfy this extra demand.

It's the same story with the capacitors. The transformer provides pulses of energy, but that's not useable directly by the output transistors or much of the other signal processing circuitry; it's too choppy if you like. What's required is something to smooth out those pulses: That's the job of the capacitors. They're energy reservoirs. They feed energy out in a smooth continuous flow. The bigger these reservoirs then the better the amp can cope with sudden demands for power when there's a musical peak or some explosion. The Yamaha has huge capacitors. They're way bigger than you'll find in current £1,000+ AV amps.

The AX1 and its siblings don't have everything its own way of course. Naturally there's a lack of the latest input connections and processing tech. DAC technology moved on too, so while the digital to analogue converter chips in the A1 and the AX1 would have been state-of-the-art for the AV market at the time, I dare say that there may be better tech out there in newer receivers. High-end power amps from Bryston, ATI, Mark Levinson, Tag McLaren/Audiolab, Krell etc use the donut-shaped toroidal transformers rather than the E-core laminated type which saturate earlier and don't generate the sort of flux density of toroidals. I'll give Yamaha its due though, their implementation doesn't suffer the transformer buzz that often goes with E-cores if they're not very well made and damped.

All that being said, if you can use a Blu-ray/UHD transport with an analogue multichannel output, or live with a maximum of DD/DTS bitstream signal, then you'd have to spend a serious amount of wedge on a new receiver to come close to the AX1's performance.
 
instructive reply - thanks
They pack a lot in a box for very little money. But when you lift the lid on some of these older receivers and amps and find that the transformer is capable of delivering twice the amp's claimed power, then you realise just how serious the designers were about the importance of effortless power delivery.
Is the standby power consumption also consequentially larger on older Amps - never turn the 2.0/8000, I use, off, but if av 7.1 is consuming >50W ..£40 electric a year. ...ok just the price you pay.

[ After commenting on room equalization tech, and the colouring that may introduce, I see Linn have a relatively new system
https://www.linn.co.uk/blog/want-true-room-correction-drop-the-mic
that seems eminently sensible, something where you model, based on the rooom dimensions, .. but describing the acoustics of materials will be tough ]
 
Standby power: It's a valid question.

Other than the convenience of switching on using the remote, the pre-HDMI-ARC amps weren't doing that much in standby. There was no video pass-through or standby source switching to do. I suppose the answer is to look at the spec sheets or manuals to see if there's a figure listed.
 
Personally would suggest this would be more valid if you had gone from like to like in manufacturer, there are multiple reasons why this might be the case otherwise (some times a certain model of amp just doesn't play well with certain speakers etc etc)

What you are saying may well be part of the reason but not the whole one.

Sure, there are some other factors that would also influence the sound. However, I find it hard to believe that in a room where the only device that has changed is the amp, and it has the advantage of playing HD audio compared to the old amp playing DD/DTS lossy compressed audio, that the sound could take such a backwards step in depth, scale and volume.

This was the second Pioneer to go in to the room in a 4 week period. The first amp was an end-of-life clearance unit. It have the same sonic limits. It developed a HDMI fault, so the retailer replaced it with the new incoming model. This had the same anaemic sound.

I was so concerned that I reset the amp and then did a manual set-up with flat EQ just to rule out Room EQ being over zealous.

I can imagine that someone stepping up from a £500-£600 HDMI amp would think the big Pioneer an upgrade. With the benefit of a point of reference such as the big Denon then it would be hard for anyone to judge what the differences are with the new amp.

Im not sure why anyone would buy anything these days just for DD/DTS so its a bit of a non answer , and if a customer knows anything they already know av recievers are generally awful at music anyway.

In the smaller Yamaha amp's case, the buyer wasn't looking for a surround amp. What they were after was and amp with digital inputs and a DAC as well as analogue. It was primarily for music, and IIRC, the comparison point was something like NAD.

I agree that lots of AV receivers were and still are poor for music. But not all of them.

Yamaha was using its knowledge from its £1,500+ AV amps to build some lower-cost receivers that did music pretty well too. Sure, if at the time you spent the £500 or so on a dedicated 2 channel amp from Rotel or Mission or ARCAM or any of the other true audiophile brands then you'd have the Yamaha beaten. But not everyone was doing that. Sadly though, few gave receivers such as those few Yamaha models much of a proper listen. Maybe it was Hi-fi snobbery, maybe it was tarring all with the same brush, or perhaps just customer expectations were different for AV Receiver buyers; whatever it was, some gems were overlooked.
 
If I was in the market for another AV receiver it wouldn't be Sony again despite the good reviews, purely from a reliability point of view. I bought a STR-DB930 almost 20 years ago. Good receiver but not that reliable. Went faulty twice in the time I owned it (overheating I think & I never pushed it for volume) Bit the bullet & replaced with its successor which served me well for 3 years, but it kind of put me off Sony.

Sony would be a wrong sonic match for the speakers I own today anyway.
 
After much thought I am not going for either the Denon or Sony amp. I have managed to find an old A10SE in the loft.

I'm more tempted to go higher end amp e.g. X6500H ish (and keep for ages). The trouble being then the right speaker setup to go with it. Another thread on that one.
 
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