The chap with the speedboat that crashed

[dowie]

He had some responsibility, though manslaughter is a bit odd. It does seem like they’ve treated the boat as some special magical thing that only the few people who own them have some strange esoteric knowledge about how they operate. Everyone knows drunk driving is dangerous, you don’t have to be a genius to realise that applies to boats, planes etc...

He’s done the equivalent of being the passenger in a car with an unlicensed drunk driver.

That he went on the run was kept from the jury/press. It was perhaps obvious when it was reported as they mentioned he wasn’t in court, however they’d have been told not to draw any conclusions from his absence.

 

[IvanDobskey]

He clung to the upturned boat calling 'help me' whilst she drowned.

I'd say he's pretty culpable.

 

[stuman]

He clung to the upturned boat calling 'help me' whilst she drowned.

I'd say he's pretty culpable.

Did he have the capacity to save her?

Did he know where she was?

 

[IvanDobskey]

Did he have the capacity to save her?

Did he know where she was?

I think he was only worried about his own sorry ass.

The guy is an utter dirt bag.

 

[glenimp617]

Has he self identified as male, or are we jumping to conclusions again?

Just because he looks male, doesn't mean he is.

/2019mode

 

[wesley]

Her boat? Thought he pretended the boat was his but actually it was a hire boat....

 

[Avenged7Fold]

Her boat? Thought he pretended the boat was his but actually it was a hire boat....

If you are responsible for a vehicle and allow someone else to be in control of it when they are over the drink drive limit, it is an offense. If a crash or accident happens and it results in a fatality, it is not unheard of that it results in manslaughter charges. In this case it seems very harsh as the driver was the person killed and so peoples idea of responsibility lies completely with the driver but i believe because he hired the boat, he is legally responsible for it and its use.

 

[dowie]

He clung to the upturned boat calling 'help me' whilst she drowned.

I'd say he's pretty culpable.

Yeah that was pretty weak of him. But that happened after the event, I'm not sure that that in itself makes him culpable - was he actually capable of rescuing her? If you reversed the roles and it was a girl shouting "help me" would you have the same view?

 

[touch]

Imagine it was your daughter/sister in her car.

She lets her drunk boyfriend drive and he crashes the car and he subsequently dies.

The police then want to put your daughter/sister in jail for 6 years.

"No way!" you shout. "She wasn't even driving!"

Cue public outrage.

In before, "That's like, totally different. Straw man! Straw man!"

Some additional facts you need to add to your story:
-Your sister's car is poorly maintained and unroadworthy, this is a contributing factor to the crash
-Your sister was aware of the condition of the car but didn't tell her boyfriend

 

[malachi]

1. He shouldn't of gone on the run.
2. He shouldn't of been willy waving just to impress a bit of skirt he met off the internet.

 

[dowie]

1. He shouldn't of gone on the run.
2. He shouldn't of been willy waving just to impress a bit of skirt he met off the internet.

have

 

[MrRockliffe]

THAT

 

[malachi]

have

Burgers!

 

[Brazo]

If you are responsible for a vehicle and allow someone else to be in control of it when they are over the drink drive limit, it is an offense. If a crash or accident happens and it results in a fatality, it is not unheard of that it results in manslaughter charges. In this case it seems very harsh as the driver was the person killed and so peoples idea of responsibility lies completely with the driver but i believe because he hired the boat, he is legally responsible for it and its use.

If you allow a child to drive a boat yes.

But let’s not forget the responsibilities that she had. As a responsible adult she shouldn’t of driven it. Her driving it caused the boat to crash and sadly the loss of her life and nearly his. She was effectively the drink driver here.

This is an unfortunate tale and a lesson for us all but I wouldn’t lay blame at either door only to say it was death by misadventure.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

If you allow a child to drive a boat yes.

But let’s not forget the responsibilities that she had. As a responsible adult she shouldn’t of driven it. Her driving it caused the boat to crash and sadly the loss of her life and nearly his. She was effectively the drink driver here.

This is an unfortunate tale and a lesson for us all but I wouldn’t lay blame at either door only to say it was death by misadventure.

I did not say she is free from responsibility, i said that it is his legal responsibility regardless of whether it was a child/woman/horse at the wheel. I am not saying the law or sentencing seems right, just what is currently legal and that the result of a manslaughter change from this is not an inconsistency with things like car accidents in similar scenarios.

Had she survived and he died or someone else died, she would have faced similar charges.

 

[Gaygle]

I agree that this case is blurring the lines of responsibility, and is reflective on how society is going at the moment. No one wants to take responsibility for their own actions and it is much easier to blame someone else. This becomes even more complicated when it's a) a pretty young girl who was most responsible, b) that pretty young girl died, c) the other person who bares some responsibility is a sleazy character. Unfortunately, this manslaughter by gross negligence charge is being used more and more in, IMO, inappropriate situations.

When we start convicting people of manslaughter who have had a small hand in a fatal incident, where does this stop? If you drive away from the MOT after your car fails and you kill someone whilst driving home, does the mechanic (or all of the mechanics at the garage?) who didn't forceably stop you from driving away become guilty of manslaughter by gross negligence? If you drive home after a night of drinking and you kill someone, do you friends become guilty of manslaughter by gross negligence because they knew exactly what you intended to do but didn't stop you?

The answer should be "no" because of a clause stating that it is only where a person has a duty of care towards another, and there is no general duty of care between people (ie. no good Samaritan law). But in this instance, the court have decided that somehow the sleazy guy in this case has a duty of care to the girl and I think the jury/court has failed to separate what a person of good moral standards would do, and what he is legally obliged to do. It is (was?) not illegal to be a selfish sleaze bag but somehow that is how this case has gone.

The correct application of this law should be when, for example, the gas man comes to fix your boiler, bodges it like hell and it leaks causing someone to die or where mother/father is off their head on drugs as their child gets into an accident.

 

[Minusorange]

Assuming son is a fully grown adult. I wouldn't hold her responsible.

This

I don't see why people cannot see this, she was driving the boat and died, it's her own fault

Just like it would have been the guys fault had he been driving

If I get in my mates car while drunk and kill someone, my mate doesn't get the blame because it's his car

 

[IvanDobskey]

He coerced her into the boat owned by him, knowing it was in a poor state, he then proceeded to drive it at twice the speed limit before handing the wheel over to her.

When the boat capsizes, he clings to the hull whilst she drowns.

How is he not responsible?

Maybe she was silly to get into the boat with this loser, but that's her only mistake.

 

[Fubsy]

If I get in my mates car while drunk and kill someone, my mate doesn't get the blame because it's his car

He would if he handed you the keys knowing you were drunk.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

When we start convicting people of manslaughter who have had a small hand in a fatal incident, where does this stop?



If you drive away from the MOT after your car fails and you kill someone whilst driving home, does the mechanic (or all of the mechanics at the garage?)


who didn't forceably stop you from driving away become guilty of manslaughter by gross negligence?

If you drive home after a night of drinking and you kill someone, do you friends become guilty of manslaughter by gross negligence because they knew exactly what you intended to do but didn't stop you?

The thing is a law requires clarity and the definition can often have people facing harsher charges in certain circumstances.

Not saying this is what is right but to answer the above questions:

1. In the eyes of the law, if someone is responsible for the vehicle and puts someone else in control, they share responsibility. If someone as a passenger causes a crash, they also can take responsibility. The extent to which someone is responsible is not always clear cut but the law is there not to shift blame but rather so everyone takes enough responsibility to avoid risks. So people think twice about letting their mate drink driver their car because you are way more drunk and such.

2. If it is proven that the reason for the crash is something the mechanic is responsible for, then they can come across manslaughter charges. I think responsibility is a bit blurred with an MOT but if a mechanic does work on someones brakes and its determined the shoddy job resulted in a crash, then it has been known for a mechanic to receive manslaughter charges

3.there are no laws requiring you to stop someone else drink driving afaik and therefore you are not legally responsible for them

Yeah responsibility and punishment often seems stupid at the extremes but there are reasons why these laws are there. A world where mechanics never took responsibility for their work may result in far more dangerous cars being on the road, same with those who never take responsibility for their own vehicle and lightly let others use it in an intoxicated state.