Alabama outlaws abortion . . .

billysielu said:
Everyone having sex with a contraceptive is taking this risk because they aren't 100% effective.
IMO this is not sufficient justification for killing the resulting baby.
Killing a baby for this reason is using murder as a contraceptive.
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Then the man that gets the female pregnant should face equal punishment under the law, yes?

A baby isn't being murdered - a pregnancy is being terminated.
 
enkoda said:
Then the man that gets the female pregnant should face equal punishment under the law, yes?

A baby isn't being murdered - a pregnancy is being terminated.
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But, but that doesn't matter! Little 13 year old sally should now be a mother and give birth and stuff!
 
Werewolf said:
It should come as zero surprise that the same states that have the most limits on abortion also have the lowest rates of sex education, lowest rates of contraceptive use (and availability*) and highest rates of STD's.

Sweden from memory has extremely easy access to abortions (free, loads of places that offer it etc), but very low rates, oddly enough they also have extremely good sex education and easy access to contraceptives.

You're also playing along with the nonsense that contraceptives are always effective, they aren't, the pill won't work if you've on some antibiotics (and you're not necessarily made aware of that unless you read the small print, or the doctor/chemist tells you), condoms can break.
Oddly enough the most effective contraceptive is one that's never suggested by the people telling women not to have an abortion etc, a vasectomy has a very very low life long failure rate ;) (and can often be reversed)


*few if any free contraceptives, no obligation for health insurance to cover things like the pill etc.
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Oh man, if only there was some personally accountable ways to prevent pregnancy.

Abstinence
Condoms
Birth Control Pills
Spermicide
Diaphragms
Birth Control Sponge
IUDs
Vasectomy
Tubes tied
Morning after pill

For all intents and purposes, contraception is 99.99% effective, although I guess abortion is 100% effective if you can't be bothered with any of the others.
 
Werewolf said:
Nonsense.

Unless you're one of the fools that believes no one should have sex except to have a baby.
And that a women, or girl who is raped should have to carry their rapists child (and in the US many states still automatically give the rapist parental rights).
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No I'm one of the fools who believes you are responsible for the consequences of your actions.
If you choose to have sex, however you mitigate the risk, there's a chance of pregnancy.
If you aren't happy with the risk, don't have sex.
Casually killing babies because you have no discipline isn't the way forward for the human race.

enkoda said:
Then the man that gets the female pregnant should face equal punishment under the law, yes?
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The man and woman are both responsible for taking the risk of pregnancy, and therefore for raising the child.
The man won't necessarily even know the woman was pregnant tho, so can't really be responsible if the woman has an abortion and the guy didn't even know. If they both know and take a joint decision to abort, then yes if there's a punishment they should share it.
 
These nut jobs are including the morning after pill as an abortion which is ridiculous. Mistakes happen, condoms tear. No woman should be forced to carry a fetus she didn’t plan on having or doesn’t want. It isn’t just 9 months but a lifetime even if she gives up the baby for adoption, it can still haunt her for years, the guilt, the “what if”.
 
Eurofighter said:
I think a human life begins when the embryo/foetus has brain activity. If you are conscious you definitely shouldn't be terminated. Emotions and sentience.
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Please can you clarify whether you draw a distinction between different types of brain activity or not. For instance, are you ok with an abortion at 4-6 weeks when the spinal cord and nervous system first develop? 12-16 weeks when the higher brain structure develops? Or 24-25 weeks when the co-ordinated brain activity required for consciousness begins?

Werewolf said:
It should come as zero surprise that the same states that have the most limits on abortion also have the lowest rates of sex education, lowest rates of contraceptive use (and availability*) and highest rates of STD's.
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It’s actually worse than that, in the sense that the people pressing for a ban on abortions are the same people pressing to ban sex education in school and limiting the availability of contraceptives.
 
Irish_Tom said:
It’s actually worse than that, in the sense that the people pressing for a ban on abortions are the same people pressing to ban sex education in school and limiting the availability of contraceptives.
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It forces people to make sure they're ready to raise a child together before having sex. Which is what they should be doing, but people have become complacent because they think contraceptives are more effective than they are.
 
Lord-Jaffa said:
Abortions shouldn't be necessary in a modern society (medical complications aside), birth control is effectively free, . . .
The rape/incest angle is always argued in cases of abortion, it's a fallacy to use this absolute minority of cases and apply it all abortions performed. . . .
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So . . . let's just ignore that "minority of cases" then, right?

"Modern society"?

"Birth control is effectively free"?

WHAT?

Are you serious?

It really is time we abolished the House of Lords.
 
billysielu said:
No I'm one of the fools who believes you are responsible for the consequences of your actions.
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You can't expect people to be responsible for the consequences of their actions at the same time as they are denied access to healthcare and contraception, and denied access to the education needed to take responsibility for their own bodies, or make meaningful choices about their sex lives as young people. Deny people knowledge, and they make bad choices. The likes of Alabama encourage bad choices and abortions by defunding sex education and healthcare.

billysielu said:
If you choose to have sex, however you mitigate the risk, there's a chance of pregnancy.
If you aren't happy with the risk, don't have sex.
Casually killing babies because you have no discipline isn't the way forward for the human race.
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Telling people to simply not follow the biological imperatives instilled into us by the millions of years of evolution that have made us the most powerful and widespread species on the planet have never worked, and will never work. Only fools and zealots like Alabama believe that telling people not to have sex will work - it never has before in the history of the world.
 
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Robert said:
But, but that doesn't matter! Little 13 year old sally should now be a mother and give birth and stuff!
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It really is a joke.

Look at how many Americans trot out the line "life is the most precious gift" (with or without attributing it to God) but then defend the right to own guns every time children are brutally slaughtered in their schools. America proves yet again that guns and unborn fetuses are more important than school kids.
billysielu said:
The man and woman are both responsible for taking the risk of pregnancy, and therefore for raising the child.
The man won't necessarily even know the woman was pregnant tho, so can't really be responsible if the woman has an abortion and the guy didn't even know. If they both know and take a joint decision to abort, then yes if there's a punishment they should share it.
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Can't be responsible? But he knew the risk. If he didn't want to risk getting her pregnant and for her to have an abortion without his knowledge, then it was his responsibility to not have sex in the first place. So he can be responsible, you're just shifting the burden of responsibility because it's more convenient.

Zefan said:
Stopped reading here. There's no point having a discussion with someone who frames - let alone starts - their argument like this.
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The article states that their decision will have a disproportionate effect on black and poor women, so their decision could be deemed both sexist and racist.
 
enkoda said:
Can't be responsible? But he knew the risk. If he didn't want to risk getting her pregnant and for her to have an abortion without his knowledge, then it was his responsibility to not have sex in the first place. So he can be responsible, you're just shifting the burden of responsibility because it's more convenient..
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The law doesn't work this way.
 
enkoda said:
The article states that their decision will have a disproportionate effect on black and poor women, so their decision could be deemed both sexist and racist.
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Ah this old chestnut, deemed by who? Idiots? People who are unable to realise that facts/statistics/figures can never be racist and or sexist.
 
Zefan said:
Stopped reading here. There's no point having a discussion with someone who frames - let alone starts - their argument like this.
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Take the white part out, as it's unnecessary.

25 men have decided that they know best about what a woman can or can't do with her body.

And these people aren't doctors.
 
Lord-Jaffa said:
Oh man, if only there was some personally accountable ways to prevent pregnancy.


Morning after pill

For all intents and purposes, contraception is 99.99% effective, although I guess abortion is 100% effective if you can't be bothered with any of the others.
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That's potentially abortion by the fundamental christian definition, surely?
 
The misogyny is strong here.

We're not talking about late term abortion, even allowing for your argument about aborting full term "featuses". Hmm, the irony of an illiterate accusing people of idiocy is maybe even stronger than the misogyny.
 
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