Ships under attack in the middle east

[stockhausen]

Perhaps if they stopped trying to develop nukes . . .

Maybe Israel and the USA would like to give up their nuclear weapons? Until that happens it is hardly surprising that any country should want to develop a nuclear deterrent for defence purposes.

Both the USA and Israel have form for either falsely claiming that a country has WMD and attacking it or pre-emptively launching attacks on its neighbours - neither can be trusted.

Perhaps if [Iran] stopped play[ing] silly ******* with international shipping then they could sell their oil again. . . .

I think that you may recall that it was the UK which at the behest of their Lord and Master the POTUS took control of an Iranian Oil Tanker that was going about its perfectly lawful business of selling oil that started this tit-for-tat behaviour. As a result of Agent Orange's childish need to undo everything that his predecessor had done Iran had problems selling its oil long before they took control of a British Oil Tanker.

The USA is hell-bent on regime change in Iran - the UK is slavishly and foolishly doing as it is told by a complete madman.

 

[Lord-Jaffa]

Maybe Israel and the USA would like to give up their nuclear weapons? Until that happens it is hardly surprising that any country should want to develop a nuclear deterrent for defence purposes.

Both the USA and Israel have form for either falsely claiming that a country has WMD and attacking it or pre-emptively launching attacks on its neighbours - neither can be trusted.

I think that you may recall that it was the UK which at the behest of their Lord and Master the POTUS took control of an Iranian Oil Tanker that was going about its perfectly lawful business of selling oil that started this tit-for-tat behaviour. As a result of Agent Orange's childish need to undo everything that his predecessor had done Iran had problems selling its oil long before they took control of a British Oil Tanker.

The USA is hell-bent on regime change in Iran - the UK is slavishly and foolishly doing as it is told by a complete madman.

Lol

 

[dowie]

I think that you may recall that it was the UK which at the behest of their Lord and Master the POTUS took control of an Iranian Oil Tanker that was going about its perfectly lawful business of selling oil that started this tit-for-tat behaviour.

Well it wasn’t at the behest of and it wasn’t going about lawful business or it wouldn’t have been seized.

If we were in the business of just going on with what the US wants then we’d have sanctions on Iranian oil too, we don’t though, the basis for the seizure related to EU sanctions on Syria.

 

[captainyossarian]

Well it wasn’t at the behest of and it wasn’t going about lawful business or it wouldn’t have been seized.

If we were in the business of just going on with what the US wants then we’d have sanctions on Iranian oil too, we don’t though, the basis for the seizure related to EU sanctions on Syria.

So you just take the word of the UK government as truth? How naive. It's amusing that you don't think we are a vassal.

As the Spanish government has already said we seized the ship upon the request of the US. An awkward fact for you I know.

 

[captainyossarian]

"Spain’s acting foreign minister, Josep Borrell, told Spanish news media that the oil tanker had been seized following “a request from the United States to the United Kingdom.” He said that Spain had been kept informed about the seizure, but offered no details to support his assertion about an American request"

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/04/world/middleeast/oil-tanker-gibraltar-syria-iran.html

Yeah, we did this on behalf of the EU even though another major EU member knows nothing about it and blames us on acting on behalf of the US...who last time I checked were not a member of the EU.

 

[dowie]

So you just take the word of the UK government as truth? How naive. It's amusing that you don't think we are a vassal.

No I’m just citing facts. If we’re a vassal then why didn’t we follow their lead and implement sanctions on Iran? Why did we not agree to their navy task force but instead turned to France and Germany?

Doesn’t seem like vassal like behaviour.

As the Spanish government has already said we seized the ship upon the request of the US. An awkward fact for you I know.

Oh so request not at their behest then? Perhaps try to read more carefully in future. Also note that the UK was apparently tracking the ship too.

 

[captainyossarian]

No I’m just citing facts. If we’re a vassal then why didn’t we follow their lead and implement sanctions on Iran? Why did we not agree to their navy task force but instead turned to France and Germany?

Doesn’t seem like vassal like behaviour.

We have American troops on our soil. We are a vassal.

But we are implementing sanctions on the behest of the US, as the Spanish have said, by seizing Iranian oil tankers. Cloak it in whatever drivel you want: the effect is we are restricting Iranian trade by order of the Americans.

Oh so request not at their behest then? Perhaps try to read more carefully in future. Also note that the UK was apparently tracking the ship too.

When have we denied their 'requests'? UK foreign policy has been outsourced to the US for years...haven't you noticed?

For example, please explain what is the British interest in interfering in Syria? Would love to know as on the surface it has **** all to do with us.

 

[captainyossarian]

Gotta love this picking a fight with Iran on the behest of the US.

It has resulted in the humiliation of our navy and placed us one step closer to a war that will crash the global economy.

Who will suffer most though? This is the hilarious bit.

War with Iran means disruption to oil to Europe, a continent reliant on external oil supplies, while the US sits pretty half a world away producing enough oil for its own economy.

And our vassal government is going along with this?

And the US have come out in recent days that it's up to us to protect our own ships even though they put us up to this piracy?

Jesus, this is humiliating.

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

Gotta love this picking a fight with Iran on the behest of the US.

It has resulted in the humiliation of our navy and placed us one step closer to a war that will crash the global economy.

Who will suffer most though? This is the hilarious bit.

War with Iran means disruption to oil to Europe, a continent reliant on external oil supplies, while the US sits pretty half a world away producing enough oil for its own economy.

And our vassal government is going along with this?

Some pretty hot takes there from our latest *checks notes* 'new' catch-22 loving forum member.

 

[captainyossarian]

Some pretty hot takes there from our latest *checks notes* 'new' catch-22 loving forum member.

Cutting.

This is your response in lieu of an argument I take it?

 

[dowie]

We have American troops on our soil. We are a vassal.

But we are implementing sanctions on the behest of the US, as the Spanish have said, by seizing Iranian oil tankers. Cloak it in whatever drivel you want: the effect is we are restricting Iranian trade by order of the Americans.


When have we denied their 'requests'? UK foreign policy has been outsourced to the US for years...haven't you noticed?

For example, please explain what is the British interest in interfering in Syria? Would love to know as on the surface it has **** all to do with us.

[/quote]

Well no, not at the behest of and that isn't what the Spanish have said. It seems to have gone over your head but a request is rather different. We can of course comply with a request if it is actually highlighting something that breaks the law/something we should be enforcing and perhaps were going to regardless... since we were monitoring the same vessel.

If we were a vassal then as pointed out already - why are we not going along with the US sanctions on Iran? You seem to have ignored that as it doesn't fit your narrative, this vessel was seized as a result of breaching EU sanctions not US sanctions - had the destination not been Syria then we'd have no reason to stop it.

How do you explain this for example:

https://www.france24.com/en/20190201-europe-eu-sets-iran-trade-mechanism-bypass-usa-sanctions-instex

Britain, France and Germany on Thursday launched a trade mechanism to bypass US sanctions on Iran, drawing praise from Tehran -- and a warning from Washington
Brussels hopes the long-awaited special payment system will help save the Iran nuclear deal by allowing Tehran to keep trading with EU companies despite Washington reimposing sanctions after President Donald Trump abruptly quit the accord last year.

So no we don't just do everything at the "behest" of the US, we're not in line with them over Iran (though Iran might well push us more toward's the US position now), this has already been pointed out to you as has the decision to not (at least not at the moment or under May's government) join a US Taskforce but turn to our European allies. You seem to have ignored it as it doesn't fit your narrative/goes against your dubious claim of the UK being a vassal.

 

[dowie]

Cutting.

This is your response in lieu of an argument I take it?

No, it is perhaps just highlighting that it is obvious who you are.

 

[Rroff]

No, it is perhaps just highlighting that it is obvious who you are.

It was kind of obvious from the first post hah.

 

[captainyossarian]

Well no, not at the behest of and that isn't what the Spanish have said. It seems to have gone over your head but a request is rather different. We can of course comply with a request if it is actually highlighting something that breaks the law/something we should be enforcing and perhaps were going to regardless... since we were monitoring the same vessel.

If we were a vassal then as pointed out already - why are we not going along with the US sanctions on Iran? You seem to have ignored that as it doesn't fit your narrative, this vessel was seized as a result of breaching EU sanctions not US sanctions - had the destination not been Syria then we'd have no reason to stop it.

How do you explain this for example:

https://www.france24.com/en/20190201-europe-eu-sets-iran-trade-mechanism-bypass-usa-sanctions-instex

https://www.france24.com/en/20190201-europe-eu-sets-iran-trade-mechanism-bypass-usa-sanctions-instex

But we are enforcing their sanctions.

The US asked (as the Spanish revealed), and we delivered. Did the EU Commission ask? No.

Don't you find it odd that a non-EU member is asking a EU member to enforce EU sanctions?

We host US troops on our own soil and have slavishly followed US policy for years. Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Venezuela, Russia etc. Are you blind?

As for Instex, I read about that. Come back to me when it allows trade for oil. As it doesn't it is useless hence the Iranian's dismissal of it.

So no we don't just do everything at the "behest" of the US, we're not in line with them over Iran (though Iran might well push us more toward's the US position now), this has already been pointed out to you as has the decision to not (at least not at the moment or under May's government) join a US Taskforce but turn to our European allies. You seem to have ignored it as it doesn't fit your narrative/goes against your dubious claim of the UK being a vassal.

We are aligned with them on Iran otherwise we wouldn't have seized the Iranian tanker on their request.

 

[captainyossarian]

It was kind of obvious from the first post hah.

Oh the alter ego of dowie is quick to pop up.

I woudn't be surprised if you are part of the MI6 troll farms. Your slavish obedience to UK foreign policy is something to behold.

 

[Rroff]

As for Instex, I read about that. Come back to me when it allows trade for oil. As it doesn't it is useless hence the Iranian's dismissal of it.

Still doesn't fit with your narrative - a vassal in the sense you are using it would toe the line.

Oh the alter ego of dowie is quick to pop up.

I woudn't be surprised if you are part of the MI6 troll farms. Your slavish obedience to UK foreign policy is something to behold.

Oh I've been loitering awhile watching... MI6 LOL...

 

[Roar87]

But we are enforcing their sanctions.

The US asked (as the Spanish revealed), and we delivered. Did the EU Commission ask? No.

Don't you find it odd that a non-EU member is asking a EU member to enforce EU sanctions?

We host US troops on our own soil and have slavishly followed US policy for years. Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Venezuela, Russia etc. Are you blind?

As for Instex, I read about that. Come back to me when it allows trade for oil. As it doesn't it is useless hence the Iranian's dismissal of it.

Do you realise that the US tax payer essentially pays for our defence? We don't host US troops, we're fortunate enough that the US has bases here which add to our defensive capabilities.

 

[captainyossarian]

Still doesn't fit with your narrative - a vassal in the sense you are using it would toe the line.

What does instex trade in, Rroff? Food and medicine which are not prohibited by unilateral US sanctions anyway. The Iranians have asked for it to include oil sales, which would fall foul of unilateral US sanctions, and the EU has refused hence it is useless.

Keep up.

 

[dowie]

But we are enforcing their sanctions.

No, we're enforcing EU sanctions. US sanctions relate to Iran itself, the EU sanctions related to Syria. As already pointed out, if the destination was different it wouldn't need to be held ditto to if they provided assurances.

The US asked (as the Spanish revealed), and we delivered. Did the EU Commission ask? No.

There we go... you're getting somewhere - "asked".

The commission isn't in a position to ask, was the commission tracking the ship?

Don't you find it odd that a non-EU member is asking a EU member to enforce EU sanctions?

Not particularly - given the location the ship was in. I mean why would it be odd, given that the US are themselves targeting Iran with sanctions?

We host US troops on our own soil and have slavishly followed US policy for years. Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Venezuela, Russia etc. Are you blind?

As for Instex, I read about that. Come back to me when it allows trade for oil. As it doesn't it is useless hence the Iranian's dismissal of it.

We are aligned with them on Iran otherwise we wouldn't have seized the Iranian tanker on their request.

Yet we aren't - if we were then why aren't we implementing US sanctions on Iran... this has already been pointed out to you.

 

[captainyossarian]

Do you realise that the US tax payer essentially pays for our defence? We don't host US troops, we're fortunate enough that the US has bases here which add to our defensive capabilities.

Wow, someone who glories in our vassalage.

A novel idea: how about we look after our own defence and have an independent foreign policy separate from a country thousands of miles away?


Bye bye Evilsooty!