Campaigners have called for the government to scrap the two-child limit on benefits

Spook187 said:
Typical droid responses in this thread, i would love to see some of you hit rock bottom and then come back with the same attitudes :rolleyes:
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My family crawled up from the very bottom and came to this country in the 70's without a penny to their name, our first TV was a black and white 14" portable on a dining chair. They installed a sense of the no ones to do anything for you apart from you, my dad worked two jobs, 6 days a week and my mum work from home as a seamstress. That's why I worked my ass off in school/uni and endured bullying because i was a nerd/geek. But now i'm laughing about it while they have to go through life eating hand to mouth because they'd rather mess around in class and working dead-end jobs instead of taking it seriously. I didn't have the privilege to go to a private school but I got the best grades anyway from that crappy school by home studying and went on to Uni to study Physics and despite a chronic illness (UC) in my second year i got my degree.

I worked my ******* fingers to the bone while having zero privileges and battling serious health issues but now i can say it was all worth it. I have security in life now thanks to it and i can say i'm genuinely happy. Me and my family now own several properties and my and my wife have a trading business between us as well as working in the city. Sorry for the rant but going through what i went through it makes me burn when others had better chances in life and had money thrown at them by the state, especially the ******** in my classes that had the exact same chances and opportunities as had but blame their situation on everyone else and not themselves. Wasting a crap ton of money on everything else apart from making their situation better.
 
robgmun said:
Maybe governments should have thought of that before flooding the country full of immigrants. Oh that's right they don't think, and then everyone suffers, thank Labour in 97 for rolling out the red carpet
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They don't have to suffer the consequences, so they don't care if they **** up.

MPs have set themselves up nicely so no matter what they are set for life. Give themselves big pay rises every year (while the rest of the civil service gets cuts due to "austerity"), then a gold plated and early pension at the end of it. Unless they touch up kids, they can't get it wrong.
 
robgmun said:
Maybe governments should have thought of that before flooding the country full of immigrants. Oh that's right they don't think, and then everyone suffers, thank Labour in 97 for rolling out the red carpet
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Lolwut?

The more people there are creates more jobs.

You want as big a population as possible for a strong economy
 
Nasher said:
They don't have to suffer the consequences, so they don't care if they **** up.

MPs have set themselves up nicely so no matter what they are set for life. Give themselves big pay rises every year (while the rest of the civil service gets cuts due to "austerity"), then a gold plated and early pension at the end of it. Unless they touch up kids, they can't get it wrong.
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Top council execs are just as capable of riding that gravy train.

At least they are down here! And if they **** up massively they get paid 1/3 million to move on.
 
Diddums said:
It's not really though, is it? Obviously those who agree are generally thinking of the Vicki Pollard types, whereas you also have people who lose jobs, lose abilities, lose loved ones, etc. If I spent my entire life feeding the system and for some reason had to stop working but then wanted another child I'd also expect the system to help out. People seem to forget that good, hard working people also suffer hardships in life which could have devastating outcomes. Why should they be denied the ability to have kids because they're not currently earning money?

It's a tough one really, but like I said, it's really not as simple as some make it out to be.
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I dont agree with you, the ones that dont agree with this seam to be the ones that benefited from the payouts or have something to loose.
if you loose loved one after you have been paying for the kids yourself that would come under the exception wont it ?
if you knowing having kids that your choice you cant blame the gov for not paying for it, its like expecting someone else to pay for your car insurances just because you passed your test, you know what the cost is involved.

Diddums said:
Poor life choices? Like being in a car crash and ending up in a wheelchair? I think you mistake my hypothetical inability to work as one that's reached out of choice, rather than one that's reached due to unavoidable circumstances or events.

Prime example being a mate of mine. His wife was diagnosed with cancer and given a year to live. Absolutely devastating news I'm sure you'll agree. These are both successful people who have worked their entire lives but obviously she quit her job when she discovered this, as did he, to give her the most he could with her remaining time. They decided to try for a child, which to you and me is probably not the best idea but it was their whole reason for life, to raise a happy family, and if it was her dying wish and he was happy to raise the kid alone / with another woman then who are we to judge, and why should this woman be denied her one dream in life?

I'm sure many will say "tough" and all that, but these people are, for lack of a better term, morons. If a few quid a week from my salary goes towards helping others achieve their life goals despite the awful, horrible things this world can throw at them then go nuts, in fact double my contribution, I earn more than enough to be happy. Why shouldn't my fellow person?

It's when you get the chavvy council trash who have zero intention of ever contributing towards the system who want to have 27 kids from 14 different fathers who are raised on McFlurries and KFC that the line gets drawn for me, which is where the shades of grey come in. There's no real way to determine who's "worth it" and who's not without resorting to rather blatant discrimination, although in an ideal world this would be perfect as far as I'm concerned.
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I think that would count as a poor choice if you just had a car crash, cant even support yourself but want a kid. plus I know a lot of people in wheel chairs that work.

As for the women with cancer, I assume that would be her first child so it would get supported and thats her right, we are talking about families that already have 2 kids but still want more and get supported for them, if its her wish I would not deny it but I would feel sorry for the child the parents have not even thought about it, being born and the mother wont be around for it

I agree with the chavv part and thats the case of most lately, working families mostly only have 2-3 kids and you can get support for 2 kids so I dnt see the problem.



Thecaferacer said:
I support full benefits to people with disabilities to help them live a normal life and the example involving someone with a year to live is so rare and nuanced that there's no one out there who would disagree with it.

We both know poor life choices would be to lose your job with 2 children already and choose to have a third child with no means to support it or to deliberately have a child with an obvious bottom feeder.

People can have children whenever and with however they like, but they shouldn't expect the tax payer to pick up the bill. Considering we already live in a country that will house, educate and medically treat every child regardless of income, I don't think it's unfair to expect a parent to shoulder some cost
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I agree with you and thats the point ive been trying to make
 
Hotwired said:
...but no one else should have that opportunity! ;)
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I'm not sure he's saying that.

Let's take an equally absurd position to demonstrate:

"Everyone should have the opportunity to come to the UK if they want. Everyone."

We'll just open the borders and tell them they're all welcome. And then count down to complete collapse as we are overwhelmed with immigrants from failing African and South American countries.

FishFluff said:
You're a massive hypocrite.
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Why is that? If he's (or his parents) an immigrant does that mean he should be in favour of completely open and porous borders?
 
FoxEye said:
Why is that? If he's (or his parents) an immigrant does that mean he should be in favour of completely open and porous borders?
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His parents came to the UK in the 70s without a penny to their name, in his words. The criteria chosen here is, and I'll paraphrase, 'penniless'.

So therefore financial means was not a selection criteria when they came. He's still clearly against some other criteria prevent the country being 'flooded', or perhaps he's changed his mind now that he's established here, and actually it would be better if we just had rich immigrants rather than those without a penny to their name.

Only one person knows. I don't know why you're arguing for him when you're not that person.
 
Dis86 said:
If you're knee deep in debt don't have kids...that's the whole point of this thread.
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You know one can happen before the other, right? Also, you have to recognise it isn't always a choice having kids - no contraception bar abstinence is 100% effective. Our third child was a total surprise - snuck in before I had the opportunity to "get done once and for all".

Christ on a bike, the lack of empathy displayed by some posters is astonishing.
 
phil675 said:
How about we end the welfare system and replace it with private charity, thus ending the forced transfer of resources from productive people to unproductive people.
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How about you emigrate to a place where that already happens? Then you can leave the UK to those of us who have more compassion.

Roar87 said:
With that said though 3 kids is your choice, why should I pay for your decision to have 3 kids?
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YOU don't pay for it, we all do. It's called being a member of society. Plenty of other countries that don't have this social safety net, I'm sure they'd be happy to welcome you with open arms.
 
FoxEye said:
I'm not sure he's saying that.
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It's not a shining example of anything positive, after having ones parents work their way to a better life here from actually zero, bemoaning others trying the same.

So while exaggerated I do think what I said is relevant to his attitude.
 
amigafan2003 said:
YOU don't pay for it, we all do. It's called being a member of society. Plenty of other countries that don't have this social safety net, I'm sure they'd be happy to welcome you with open arms.
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How many children should "society" pay people to have? Should some people simply be provided for by the state while they have another child every 2 years? How are those children going to be raised to be productive members of society if their parents are professional birthers?
 
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