Major Power Outage
- Thread starter ron3003
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Was just amusing watching everything drop 
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Soldato
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I heard we are going back to candles and outside toilets.
British made outside toilets..... true grit.
There is enough generation.
The issue yesterday was caused by two large generation sources disconnecting off the electricity network at the same time (within 2 mins of each other which is highly unusual), causing a dangerous drop in frequency, which triggered the National Grid safety systems to keep power working for the rest of country.
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lessons will have to be learned
What I genuinely don’t understand is why, if the power was off for only around 30-40 minutes, was there such disruption for so many hours after, especially with the trains?
Is just a matter of the time it takes to get signalling system etc back up and functional?
I can understand a delay in timetabling, but not so much the hours people were stuck on trains.
Is just a matter of the time it takes to get signalling system etc back up and functional?
I can understand a delay in timetabling, but not so much the hours people were stuck on trains.
Two power stations disconnected from the network leaving it unable to provide "enough generation". They then chose to cut off power in many parts of the country including to hospitals and the rail network.
The question as to be asked is why did the two power stations disconnect from the network? It also shows how little reserve we have. This needs to be increased.
We need new nuclear power stations to be built.
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...-stations-in-doubt-over-ageing-infrastructure
Soldato
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If you think of the national grid as a series of pedals on the same chain. Some are peddling hard and some only a little and together the balance the resistance. If two large generators stop suddenly and the other peddlers can’t make up the shortfall then it goes slower. It only has to drop a small amount before the grid becomes unstable. Now the grid is designed from its outset to accommodate the risk of generators dropping off in several ways. First off inertia large shafts spinning at 3000rpm have a lot of inertia this opposes the slowing down. The steam systems are also an inventory of stored energy which can be released into the steam turbine at quarter of a seconds notice but this is a very limited amount. The gas turbines can open up the gas valves and air intakes to respond in a few seconds. Low frequency cut ins on stand alone gas turbine start the GTs and the best are at speed in 30 seconds and full load in two minutes. Stations operating below full load can ramp up but generally this isn’t quick, tens of minutes to start responding.
But the problem is renewables provide no inertia. They also have no inventory of stored energy, and generally are producing maximum load so can’t ramp up. Big coal stations with lots of inertia have closed or aren’t running. The fast response small GTs they housed have closed with them in most cases so there are fewer fast response GTs. All of this makes the grid more susceptible to the shock of big units tripping. Particularly if it happens very close together and particularly in the summer when renewables are a very high proportion of the generation.
Welcome to the short to medium term future.
But the problem is renewables provide no inertia. They also have no inventory of stored energy, and generally are producing maximum load so can’t ramp up. Big coal stations with lots of inertia have closed or aren’t running. The fast response small GTs they housed have closed with them in most cases so there are fewer fast response GTs. All of this makes the grid more susceptible to the shock of big units tripping. Particularly if it happens very close together and particularly in the summer when renewables are a very high proportion of the generation.
Welcome to the short to medium term future.
Soldato
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Honestly we don’t want what anyone is offering. PWRs and BWRs are horrible tech even when refined by modern technology. We should have spent the last 30 years developing new designs like molten salt reactors with far more passive safety. But that is beyond the pale for the hair shirt gang.
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Stayed at work drinking as colleagues' trains were ****ed... Don't remember getting home so woke up at 5am, still drunk, all clocks and alarms had obviously been reset. Turns out my oven won't turn on until you set the clock!
- There is always enough reserve generation ready to kick in- it’s a mandatory requirement. Also, the loss yesterday had nothing to do with a lack of generation.
- it’s not ideal hospitals getting cut off but as I understand it, their onsite backup generation failed too.
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It'll be a multitude of issues that prevent trains moving. In this case it seems certain classes of trains running on the East Coast Mainline were bricked by the fluctuation in power and needed resetting/rescuing. Some units can only be reset by an engineer (usually a driver can do this) so these trains were mostly evacuated.
The above will obviously block the lines for the trains that can run so it turns into a logistical nightmare of trying to get the trains that can move to find paths around the ones that can't. If any of these trains are blocking a junction or there's no way around the train, then it'll be a long time before anything in the area can move.
According to National Rail signalling was mainly unaffected and systems were back up and running in a few minutes.
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My Mrs was working at TGI Fridays on the oaks and got to go home!
Using "bulldog spirit", you know, panting, wheezing and inbred.