Beggers in Leeds

Soldato
Joined
6 May 2009
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19,927
Im not sure about other cities but it seems in the past 5-10 years the amount of beggers in the city center has at least doubled.

As it is illegal to beg, does this means anyone can perform a citizens arrest on these people?

I offered one a sandwich once and he didnt want it! Clearly after money for drink and or drugs only. These are clearly not ‘homeless’ or are only homeless by choice
 
Soldato
Joined
30 Sep 2005
Posts
16,553
Im not sure about other cities but it seems in the past 5-10 years the amount of beggers in the city center has at least doubled.

As it is illegal to beg, does this means anyone can perform a citizens arrest on these people?

I offered one a sandwich once and he didnt want it! Clearly after money for drink and or drugs only. These are clearly not ‘homeless’ or are only homeless by choice

No, my city has seen a dramatic increase in about the same time

In fact, they are getting quite hostile....even more so when you actually give them money

Drugs
 
Caporegime
Joined
29 Jan 2008
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58,913
As it is illegal to beg, does this means anyone can perform a citizens arrest on these people?

I'd strongly suggest you don't do that! Even if they're scrawny little ****s you'll likely have a nasty fight on your hands/potentially get bitten/get a nasty infection etc..etc..

I'm not sure of the rules of citizens arrest, I'm sure someone will either know and tell us or will google it - but I suspect that minor offences aren't going to be something you can just go and restrain someone for - I mean you'd not expect someone to hold you in say a supermarket carpark because on the way there they were doing 30 and you overtook/broke the speed limit etc...
 
Associate
Joined
2 Jan 2007
Posts
1,976
Im not sure about other cities but it seems in the past 5-10 years the amount of beggers in the city center has at least doubled.

As it is illegal to beg, does this means anyone can perform a citizens arrest on these people?

I offered one a sandwich once and he didnt want it! Clearly after money for drink and or drugs only. These are clearly not ‘homeless’ or are only homeless by choice

I work in Leeds as well. Definitely in the past couple of years there has been a huge increase. The amount of "spiced" people laying in the street with paramedics surrounding them is also a once a week occurence now.

Lots of scammers are round as well, routinely see the same people who have forgotten their "train fares"....
 
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Soldato
Joined
12 Jul 2007
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7,922
Location
Stoke/Norfolk
I'm in Paris right now and there's not a beggar insight which I feel is amazing for such a huge capital city. There's husslers and pick-pockets etc but actual beggars I've not seen, maybe the police here are more strict or the homeless are just hidden away more but it's a very pleasent surprise compared to a recent London trip. Hell even in New York we only saw a literal hand full as we walked around (mainly street-sleepers) but then the weather was -24'c to be fair.
 
Soldato
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1 Mar 2008
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Location
Deep North
Walking from Central Station up to Haymarket Bus Station you'll encounter at least 10 beggers who will approach you for money and that's excluding the one sitting on corners and doorways begging too. Only a small percent are actual genuine homeless cases.
 
Caporegime
Joined
29 Jan 2008
Posts
58,913
I'm in Paris right now and there's not a beggar insight which I feel is amazing for such a huge capital city. There's husslers and pick-pockets etc but actual beggars I've not seen, maybe the police here are more strict or the homeless are just hidden away more

"there's not a beggar insight" that sounded like a special beggar training day :D

What do you mean by hustlers?

The homeless are hidden away in the UK too! Most beggars aren't homeless and a homeless person might well be the guy behind you queuing to withdraw cash from the cashpoint not the actor sat down beside it pretending to be homeless.
 

Deleted member 66701

D

Deleted member 66701

The lack of empathy displayed on this forum astonishes me sometimes.
 
Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
9,508
You cannot perform a citizens arrest. Citizens arrests are for serious crimes that would be referred to the crown court. Begging is what? a fine?

Be very careful in even trying to perform a citizens arrest as you could wind up on assault charges.
 
Soldato
Joined
18 Jun 2010
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6,576
Location
Essex
Article from the Speccy on this:

Over the years, I have spent around five months sleeping rough on the streets of London, Birmingham and New York, making undercover TV programmes. Matthew, who works in my Westminster office, spent last summer involuntarily homeless after he was cheated by his business partner. I suspect we are the only people within the Palace of Westminster who have been through the unpleasant experience of sleeping rough, and we both have come to the same conclusion. Street homelessness (as opposed to the homelessness of temporary accommodation) is, for the most part, a symptom or consequence of a different problem: addiction to drink or drugs, or mental illness. If politicians want to deal with it, they must accept this.

Homelessness is a popular subject in SW1. It enables both sides of the political divide to project their prejudices onto the least fortunate. The right tell them to get a job; the left see them as victims of inadequately funded services by the state. But both sides have a point: for the addicted or the mentally ill to even get near a job, many will need the intervention of social services.

Rough-sleeping could and should be a cross-party issue, but for this to happen, everyone must wake up. The left in particular must accept what George Orwell called ‘unacceptable facts’ — and here follow a few from our own experience that will tweak the noses of the pious.

Most beggars are kept in heroin or drink by the kindness of strangers. If you give money to a beggar you are almost certainly enabling the addiction that put them on the street. Here’s the test — look at the recipient’s teeth. If theirs are carious, blue-black Elizabethan stumps or they have none at all, their owner is a smack addict. Staff at the homeless charity St Mungo’s told me of one addict who now wishes the public had not given him cash for ‘a cup of tea’ or ‘a hostel’ because it enabled for a decade the habit that lost him a leg. ‘If I hadn’t been given that money, I would have got help much sooner,’ he said. Beggars in London can make more than £100 a day; in places such as Winchester or Oxford, where there is a huge oversupply of credulous tourists and students, they make even more. Having a cute puppy, I was told, increases your take.



Another ‘unacceptable fact’ is that some people do choose to live on the streets. When I spoke in a Westminster Hall debate I said this and a Labour MP interrupted me to say: ‘I simply cannot believe that anyone would choose to sleep rough.’ This rhetorical technique is what Richard Dawkins calls the ‘Argument from Personal Incredulity’, and it’s as useless in examining homelessness as it is in taking on the arguments against evolution. A person’s failure to believe something does not make it false. A minority of people do choose to sleep rough. Some don’t like the rules enforced at night shelters that forbid drink and drugs; a smaller number like the escape from bourgeois conventions and responsibility.

Some months ago, I slept out for a few days behind the goods-in entrance of McDonald’s by Westminster Cathedral where many addicted to the horrific synthetic cannabis ‘spice’ are turned into zombies. There I made friends with an alcoholic in his thirties called Andy who showed me the keys to the flat he lived in — he does not actually live there, he told me, because he gets so very lonely, and on the street the passers-by now freely pay for his beer.

What’s more, in the summer sleeping rough is not that unpleasant, certainly more comfortable than being on army exercise (if you are of sound mind, able-bodied and not in the throes of addiction). Trouble is, what starts as a street party or escapism for some can turn into a downward spiral of addiction and mental illness.

What was depressing in our experience on the streets recently was how little had changed since the early 1990s. Despite billions of pounds of public money, countless worthwhile charitable initiatives and royal visits, Matthew and I saw the same cohort of the addicted and the mentally ill. What, then, is to be done? This is where we need to listen to both the left and the right.

The public must stop giving cash directly to beggars. (The Oxford University business incubator has developed an app to give money to beggars via an account where it can be used as a deposit on a flat or for food.) In addition, money must be allocated for emergency mental health assessments. Someone with a serious psychiatric illness is extremely unlikely to be able to maintain a tenancy. Mental health support should be embedded within outreach teams, so that the money goes to the tip of the spear, and then follows people through the system rather than being absorbed by general mental health budgets.

Lastly, the ‘Housing First’ policy, which puts a homeless person in accommodation before asking them to deal with their addictions, is very obviously the right one. It has been a great success in Finland and America and is being trialled in three cities here.

That those least able to help themselves end up homeless is ultimately driven by another unacceptable fact: we are not building enough new homes. This is in part about immigration. For 2018, net international migration was estimated at 275,000, and there were 121,000 more births than deaths: 396,000 more people. But for many years, housing stock has not kept pace. You cannot keep adding to your population while failing to build enough new homes.

All in all, we are mostly only dealing with the symptoms of homelessness rather than its causes — and in the process we are keeping those most unable to help themselves on the street.


Adam Holloway is the MP for Gravesham. He was formerly a captain in the army and an investigative journalist.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/08/what-ive-learned-from-five-months-sleeping-on-the-streets/

He seems to be of the impression that the majority are addicts, and that giving them money fuels their habits. And that putting them in houses first, and then offering them mental and addiction help is the way forward. I tend to agree with that.
 
Associate
Joined
27 Aug 2003
Posts
2,231
I look at giving to beggars as basically paying drug dealers to make these people’s lives miserable. Good work.
 
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Caporegime
Joined
8 Sep 2005
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29,984
Location
Norrbotten, Sweden.
It's vile. I had to set my man on one the other day for asking for a quid for the bus.
Filth everywhere, have to get my shoes resoled.

And more seriously....

I've not seen European beggers and genuine filthy, desperate people like I saw recently at Brussels midi station. The floor was literally caked in human poop under the train arches.
My life's not a non stop party but f that life.
 
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