VW ID.3 Live Launch today at 19:00

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Looks really interesting, bit of a shame the charging speeds aren't a bit faster though, 50kw on the base model is very 2012 and even 100-125kw on the mid and high ones seems very slow for the size of batteries.

BUT if it gets people in to BEV's then it's all good, i hope they can actually make them in the quantities required unlike everyone bar Telsa currently.
 
sovietspybob said:
bit of a shame the charging speeds aren't a bit faster though, 50kw on the base model is very 2012
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I'm confused by that, it's DC charging so there's nothing in the car besides software to limit it? They say the base has an option for 100kW DC charging, they're probably not doing a different battery for that. Maybe larger gauge wiring to the CCS socket?

100kW is ample though I think, especially in small efficient cars, that's probably ~500mph charging. Reducing a 30 minute stop to a 15 minute stop isn't life or death.
 
- maybe a different design of the battery cooling system on the 50KW charging limited version. ... can they even dispense with the system;
in compliment is the cross-range limited 99mph top speed reducing the excessive discharge rates, so cooling needs might be reduced there too.


Are their pre-orders (and, for that matter, most of the Tesla purchases/owners, ev's generally) PCP's/leasing - battery life concerns has got to play in that decision, although for tesla data seems to allay that.
 
It'll be different rates as the battery packs configurations will be different, the lesser ones will probably have less modules so will be a lower overall pack voltage/few cells in total which will limit how much it can take in. The Tesla model 3 has the same 'issue' in that the lower capacity car is currently software capped at 105kw and the long range is capped to 175kw until they get enough data to alter the charging curve, then it should allow 175kw on the standard car and 250kw on the long range. But it's the physical limitations of the pack which means you could not charge the smaller battery car faster as it has fewer cells.

I do think that 100kw is fine as like you say that's knocking on the door of 500mph but when 250/350 chargers are becoming mainstream it's a shame it can't take advantage of that. Especially when more and more of us have BEV's and people start to queue up, maybe chargers will charge per minute rather than per KW as some do in america.
 
sovietspybob said:
It'll be different rates as the battery packs configurations will be different, the lesser ones will probably have less modules so will be a lower overall pack voltage/few cells in total which will limit how much it can take in. The Tesla model 3 has the same 'issue' in that the lower capacity car is currently software capped at 105kw and the long range is capped to 175kw until they get enough data to alter the charging curve, then it should allow 175kw on the standard car and 250kw on the long range. But it's the physical limitations of the pack which means you could not charge the smaller battery car faster as it has fewer cells.
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Yes, but the 45kWh battery comes with 50kW charging as standard and 100kW as an option, I would be surprised if the pack is different. Cooling, maybe, but as Nissan (gen. 1 leaf) and Tesla have jointly proven, thermal management (heating and cooling) is vital for a long battery lifespan. My bet is it's just a software upgrade and the hardware is identical; you want charge fast you pay money.
 
Yeah it'll be interested to see how about how the packs are configured. I can only speak for Tesla but their smaller packs are made up on 'bricks' of 31 cells in parallel where as the bigger packs are 46 cells, when an individual cell can only accept a certain peak input you can obviously charge the pack with more cells in parallel at a higher rate. Thermal management is a big part of it too, as i believe VW are using the gel pouch style batteries so it'll be interesting to see how they are cooling each cell.
 
The lower charge rate can help the car with its carbon neutral credentials/crown ?

below article is interesting, reminding of charge rate issues, also suggests hybrids are the sweet spot
http://www.windtaskforce.org/profil...y-efficiency-and-co2-of-gasoline-and-electric

APPENDIX 8
Quick Charging of Batteries: Because low-voltage (110V+) charging of batteries takes a long time, higher voltage (220V+) charging is often used, because it reduces charging times. However, that negatively impacts:
- Charging efficiencies, which increases energy consumption and costs
- Battery aging, which requires earlier battery replacement, because of a loss of storage capacity, kWh, which negatively affects driving range
- Discharging efficiencies at required rates, which negatively affect acceleration and uphill driving.
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unrelated - news this morning ... thatcham demanded self drive cars should be able to pull-over if the driver is unresponsive ... interesting angle
 
Variants of the Golf's adaptive cruise have a feature that caters for this, to some degree; i believe it's something along the lines of ~ if it warns abut collisions and the driver doesn't brake, the car will stop, put the hand brake on and activate the hazards.
 
jpaul said:
The lower charge rate can help the car with its carbon neutral credentials/crown ?

below article is interesting, reminding of charge rate issues, also suggests hybrids are the sweet spot
http://www.windtaskforce.org/profil...y-efficiency-and-co2-of-gasoline-and-electric
Click to expand...

That smacks of the fossil industry grasping at fine threads, and it's posted on an anti-wind-energy website, it's suggesting because 220V AC charging is faster than 110 it hurts efficiency!? AC charging is *very* slow for the actual cells, less than 0.1C, and difference in charging losses down there is negligible. Putting a device that's around 30% efficient in the mix (ICE) is not the sweet spot. And if you want to ignore renewables and go from fossil to locomotion; a CCGT plant has an efficiency of ~62%, it is better to burn the fuel in a power station.

0.1C charging does not hurt the battery's lifespan, it's about as easy a charge as you can get. It's impossible to charge a battery without contributing to wearing it out, they have limited cycles; but 100,000 miles is only 322 cycles of my Tesla's battery..

How about DC fast charging, 100kW for the small ID.3 is about a 2C charge, that's significant for a lithium battery, it may be only 90% efficient charging at that rate and it will wear the battery out faster. However the difference between very slow and very fast charging is not large enough to ever justify a hybrid per se.

The claim that 220V charging vs 110V charging harms the discharge characteristics is presented in isolation in an appendix with no justification or citation.
 
yes I agree they were probably talking AC, but your'e going to rectify it to DC
within dc if you are charging, same battery pack at a higher rate, so the id3 at 100KW versus 50KW, you are applying a higher voltage to the cells so impacting lifespan.
I suppose that vw can't as easily control max charge % and max discharge %, that the customer 'adopts', which could have a greater impact on the lifespan.

if you are charging @50KW 50Kw battery pack then that's ~ 1C charge rate I guess and would be 2C at 100KW, if you used all the current.
(eg. https://batteryuniversity.com/index.php/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries)

The article, could do with updating, if the tesla battery plant is solar powered then the high CO2 produced during battery production, which it suggests is larger than expelled during 'use', is probably reduced; that seemed to be the principal argument they used to justify a hybrid with an ICE.
 
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