Why does every phone other than the iPhone come with android?

[mrochester]

You have a woefully inadequate understanding of the mobile operating system market and AOSP and capitalism and history and allsorts.

This is a demand driven situation, plenty of other mobile operating systems existed, then ironically largely because of iOS several died out because they lost all their market share, the manufacturers left standing then moved to AOSP because it was the only place they could survive.

That wasn't anything to do with google themselves other than just like with search they made a product that was better and customers voted with their feet.

In addition, there are lots of options for AOSP that doesn't use google services at all.. like in China. No play store, totally separate app stores, nothing preloaded etc.

It's survival of the fittest which means your "why wouldn't I want a situation where xyz" is nonsensical.. why wouldn't I want dinosaurs to still exist? Well I can want whatever I want but they already died out. Like blackberry, and symbian and every other mobile OS.

Nobody made anyone buy android, nobody made an OEMs use android. Nobody forced Microsoft, the biggest OS vendor on the planet probably, using the formerly largest hardware mfr to abjectly fail to generate consumer demand with a product that was fine.

Well, google did rather have a hand in destroying whatever chance Microsoft had in succeeding with windows phone.

Google also use revenue from advertising to subsidise android development which makes it near impossible for any competition to exist. How do you compete with free? It’s effectively dumping to gain market share and a monopoly.

Google also use restrictive contracts to ensure that manufacturers cannot compete with them in the operating system market as soon as they have 1 device with google play services.

They’ve basically engaged in a number of anti-competitive business practices to ensure that they are the only game in town.

And thankfully we’ve got regulation coming to break all that up. It would have been better if we hadn’t ended up in this situation in the first place though.

 

[james.miller]

You are conflating two different markets. iOS does not compete in the smartphone operating system market. The iPhone competes in the smartphone market.

No. Lets be perfectly clear, you are conflating software and hardware markets. My post and the comments in it were only referring to software.

Why would you want less competition in the market?

I don't, I want more. So do you, I think, but only on your own terms. Let's make iOS available to other manufacturers, how's that for more competition? You said you like Samsung hardware earlier in this thread (a lie, I believe, based on what you've said about Samsung previously..) so let's have an iOS powered galaxy. There's competition for you. Now let's see you try to rationalise why you think that's a bad idea....

 

[mrochester]

No. Lets be perfectly clear, you are conflating software and hardware markets. My post and the comments in it were only referring to software.


I don't, I want more. So do you, I think, but only on your own terms. Let's make iOS available to other manufactureres, how's that for more competition? You said you like Samsung hardware earlier in this thread (a lie, I believe, based on what you've said about Samsung previously..) so let's have an iOS powered galaxy. There's competition for you. Now let's see you try to rationalise why you think that's a bad idea....

You are irrelevantly dragging Apple into that equation.

It is not for Apple to fix the lack of competition in the smartphone OS market. The fix should be coming from the manufacturers who are currently using android, or a new independent player who can sell their OS to the manufacturers.

If neither of those two can provide competition because the market is dominated by a monopoly player, then regulation should be used to provide a competitive market.

 

[matt100]

Well, google did rather have a hand in destroying whatever chance Microsoft had in succeeding with windows phone.

Google also use revenue from advertising to subsidise android development which makes it near impossible for any competition to exist. How do you compete with free? It’s effectively dumping to gain market share and a monopoly.

Google also use restrictive contracts to ensure that manufacturers cannot compete with them in the operating system market as soon as they have 1 device with google play services.

They’ve basically engaged in a number of anti-competitive business practices to ensure that they are the only game in town.

And thankfully we’ve got regulation coming to break all that up. It would have been better if we hadn’t ended up in this situation in the first place though.

Man you have a dogmatic opinion.

1) How?
2) That's not true, Samsung are the predominant android mfr and make handsets with other operating systems
3) They've engaged in practices to WIN. That's capitalism. Much the same as Apple have engaged in creating their lovely walled garden
4) for the second time, we didn't start here. We ended up here because of customer choice. How would you curtail that? Everyone with a surname starting with S has to have Tizen?

 

[unwashed potato!]

4) for the second time, we didn't start here. We ended up here because of customer choice. How would you curtail that? Everyone with a surname starting with S has to have Tizen?

whoa slow down there pal. that sort of thinking might lead to mrochester having to have a different OS to what apple provide him. he wants competition, but for others to be the one using it. why doens't he buy blackberry, why not windows os. he wants other people to do that for him. Catch up

 

[mrochester]

Man you have a dogmatic opinion.

1) How?
Google deliberately broke functionality that Microsoft had built into windows phone. Google refused to make native apps for the platform despite them (apparently) being a horizontal player in the market (all services available across all devices).

2) That's not true, Samsung are the predominant android mfr and make handsets with other operating systems.

You cannot make an OS based on AOSP if you have any phone running play services. This was an anti-competitive clause that has now been removed by the EU.

3) They've engaged in practices to WIN. That's capitalism. Much the same as Apple have engaged in creating their lovely walled garden.

And the losers of google winning are us consumers. We now get no choice.

4) for the second time, we didn't start here. We ended up here because of customer choice. How would you curtail that? Everyone with a surname starting with S has to have Tizen?

Detach android from Google’s advertising business. Make it have to stand on its own two feet. Mandate that google cannot give its own platform preferential treatment when it is also competing in the smartphone operating system market.

 

[mrochester]

whoa slow down there pal. that sort of thinking might lead to mrochester having to have a different OS to what apple provide him. he wants competition, but for others to be the one using it. why doens't he buy blackberry, why not windows os. he wants other people to do that for him. Catch up

Your silly mocking just makes your argument look weak. Either discuss respectfully or leave.

 

[Rimsy]

whoa slow down there pal. that sort of thinking might lead to mrochester having to have a different OS to what apple provide him. he wants competition, but for others to be the one using it. why doens't he buy blackberry, why not windows os. he wants other people to do that for him. Catch up

He could have saved everyone a lot of trouble and time by simply naming this thread "I hate Google and love Apple" rather than try to hide behind this poorly thought out argument.

 

[mrochester]

He could have saved everyone a lot of trouble and time by simply naming this thread "I hate Google and love Apple" rather than try to hide behind this poorly thought out argument.

This is why you can’t have sensible debate on forums anymore. Too many shills, mocking and derision if you don’t adhere to the hive mind thinking.

 

[unwashed potato!]

This is why you can’t have sensible debate on forums anymore.

Because it isn't one. You hid your motive, and when finally it was shown, then it stopped being a sensible debate.

There's 2 big players in mobile os. One allows competition to use it. One doesn't.

You want the one that allows competition to use it, to be forced to more competitive, while happy the one that doesn't allow competition, to stay as it is.
This isn't a sensible debate.

 

[Rimsy]

This is why you can’t have sensible debate on forums anymore. Too many shills, mocking and derision if you don’t adhere to the hive mind thinking.

It's nothing to do with that. You've already had several holes picked in your "arguments" yet your opinionated nature makes it virtually impossible to hold any sort of debate.

 

[james.miller]

This is why you can’t have sensible debate on forums anymore.

Because people duck and dive questions?

You are irrelevantly dragging Apple into that equation.

Why does every phone other than the iPhone come with android?

It started with the thread title. Your thread title.

 

[matt100]

He could have saved everyone a lot of trouble and time by simply naming this thread "I hate Google and love Apple" rather than try to hide behind this poorly thought out argument.

I'll be honest I've somewhat realised that myself quite quickly.

For a moment I thought it was a genuine discussion... I mean the fact that Apple hold a vice like grip on both hardware and software in their ecosystem and create a guilded cage for customers is by the by I suppose.

Also totally lost is the fact that the reason in some respects that there's only 2 ecosystems now is because Apple were so successful and polished and whatnot many competitors couldn't survive and the only ones that could did it was a similarly sizeable and powerful parent behind them.

And that's fine, it's capitalism like I said.

The notion that google had much of anything to do with app developers and customers and OEMs not flocking to other OS' is nonsensical.

In fact if he was going to criticise anyone it would be the other OEMs, they're the ones who made all this android hardware, they're the ones who drove themselves in many cases to bankruptcy using a free OS to try and compete.

I mean.. I suppose they could have gone bust faster by ploughing yet more money into R&D for their own OS?

Or google could have had one hand tied behind their backs? I mean, they do have about 50% of the UK market share.. the other 50%? Well, lets not talk about that. It's irrelevant here right?

 

[mrochester]

Because it isn't one. You hid your motive, and when finally it was shown, then it stopped being a sensible debate.

There's 2 big players in mobile os. One allows competition to use it. One doesn't.

You want the one that allows competition to use it, to be forced to more competitive, while happy the one that doesn't allow competition, to stay as it is.
This isn't a sensible debate.

Your assessment of the situation is wrong. You are conflating the smartphone market with the smartphone operating system market.

 

[mrochester]

I'll be honest I've somewhat realised that myself quite quickly.

For a moment I thought it was a genuine discussion... I mean the fact that Apple hold a vice like grip on both hardware and software in their ecosystem and create a guilded cage for customers is by the by I suppose.

Also totally lost is the fact that the reason in some respects that there's only 2 ecosystems now is because Apple were so successful and polished and whatnot many competitors couldn't survive and the only ones that could did it was a similarly sizeable and powerful parent behind them.

And that's fine, it's capitalism like I said.

The notion that google had much of anything to do with app developers and customers and OEMs not flocking to other OS' is nonsensical.

In fact if he was going to criticise anyone it would be the other OEMs, they're the ones who made all this android hardware, they're the ones who drove themselves in many cases to bankruptcy using a free OS to try and compete.

I mean.. I suppose they could have gone bust faster by ploughing yet more money into R&D for their own OS?

Or google could have had one hand tied behind their backs? I mean, they do have about 50% of the UK market share.. the other 50%? Well, lets not talk about that. It's irrelevant here right?

Your reasoning is wrong.

Apple isn’t the reason there are only two ecosystems. Google is. You just have to look at who holds the largest smartphone operating system share to see where the problem lies.

 

[matt100]

Your reasoning is wrong.

Apple isn’t the reason there are only two ecosystems. Google is. You just have to look at who holds the largest smartphone operating system share to see where the problem lies.

Your reasoning is wrong. Apple are the reason there are only 2 ecosystems. Nothing else could compete.

 

[mrochester]

Your reasoning is wrong. Apple are the reason there are only 2 ecosystems. Nothing else could compete.

Any number of companies could choose to compete with Apple. Apple doesn’t distort the market or compete unfairly with anti-competitive business practices (they don’t flood the market with cheap devices that make no profit or a loss, they don’t tie up other manufacturers with restrictive contracts that prevent them from competing etc). All you need to do to compete with Apple is to create a product that is as good as or better than what Apple offers.

On the flip side, in the smartphone operating system market, google has resorted to dumping and anti-competitive business practices to ensure they are the only player in town. You can’t compete with google because you have to give your product away (so you make no profit) and you can’t make a combination of products as a means to grow your business (because google ties you in restrictive contracts that prevents it).

 

[matt100]

You know Google rarely "makes" anything and OEMs can sell for whatever price they like?

You also can't dump a free open source OS.

If you want to use their store then there are terms.if not, just like Amazon, you can use the aosp version which has nothing to do with Google.

 

[mrochester]

You know Google rarely "makes" anything and OEMs can sell for whatever price they like?

You also can't dump a free open source OS.

If you want to use their store then there are terms.if not, just like Amazon, you can use the aosp version which has nothing to do with Google.

Why can’t you dump a free open source OS?

Also, their terms were anti-competitive. That’s what the EU have ruled against. Why shouldn’t an OEM be able to create one phone with play services and another without? Under the guise of being open and benevolent, google have ruthlessly destroyed all possible competition. And amazingly, people actually support that behaviour! It’s simply stunning to me.

 

[matt100]

Why can’t you dump a free open source OS?

Also, their terms were anti-competitive. That’s what the EU have ruled against. Why shouldn’t an OEM be able to create one phone with play services and another without? Under the guise of being open and benevolent, google have ruthlessly destroyed all possible competition. And amazingly, people actually support that behaviour! It’s simply stunning to me.

Well you do have a very specific highly biased view so that's not surprising.