Can you be thrown out of heaven and into hell (and vice versa)

ttaskmaster said:
And who/what made the big bang happen, eh? What was there before? Science says you can't make something out of nothing, so the universe cannot have been an empty void...
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WHY cannot it have been that way. 'Science says you can't make something out of nothing? **** Science. Science does not understand what it does not understand. Seriously **** science if it thinks it can explan conciousness. **** science in the head.
 
Aiden92 said:
Look at it from the other point of view. god 'probably' exists, or why are we here? If you look for evidence of a god, you will never find it, because that is not how god works. Something gave humans conciousness, or if you want to reach further back than that, something created the universe. What was that? Some kind of God maybe? I don't know m8
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I've highlighted a very important bit.

You have no proof that god exists, you even admit that you don't know how life or the universe came to be, yet you make a very clear claim of how a god does not work. Why should I believe you know how a god works if you can't even prove one exists?

Claiming you know a god's character or abilities is pure fantasy.
 
What an odd thread. Can I be thrown out of a place that doesnt exist and be put in another equally fictional place? Sure why the "hell" not. South park has proven to us that there is only one true science.
 
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R.P.L said:
That's a logical fallacy.



This only fits in with the first bit that I quoted if you're approaching this with some kind of 'consciousness creates reality' perspective, otherwise it doesn't follow that something wouldn't exist until it's proven to exist.
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no, it's simply the way it is. if nobody knows anything about something and there's abolutely no evidence of it, then it to all intents and purposes doesn't exist until such time as evidence appears. before the 1800s, monstrous giant lizards didn't exist, there was no proof at all of them. then someone dug one up.
 
wolfie138 said:
no, it's simply the way it is. if nobody knows anything about something and there's abolutely no evidence of it, then it to all intents and purposes doesn't exist until such time as evidence appears. before the 1800s, monstrous giant lizards didn't exist, there was no proof at all of them. then someone dug one up.
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Nope, they existed all along...
 
Aiden92 said:
No, I hope I did not state confidently, because I don't know.
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That statement is not true. This is what you wrote and what I was replying to:

Aiden92 said:
Uh, I suppose there has to be SOMETHING. this CANNOT be it.

If you just look at humanity, we have pulled ourselves back from the brink of nuclear war a few times. why? What stopped human beings from destroying themselves? Is it some dude in russia who held his finger off the button while he waited for a cloud of starlings to pass or smthng. No. Something held him back. [..]
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As I said in reply and still say now: You stated confidently, as an absolute fact, that whatever god you believe in took control of Stanislav Petrov and acted through him.
 
enkoda said:
I've highlighted a very important bit.

You have no proof that god exists, you even admit that you don't know how life or the universe came to be, yet you make a very clear claim of how a god does not work. Why should I believe you know how a god works if you can't even prove one exists?

Claiming you know a god's character or abilities is pure fantasy.
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I think if we were to keep discussing this it would end up a circular argment. At the end of the day, I dont know, and I hope you realise you do not know either. So what are we left with then.
 
Angilion said:
That statement is not true. This is what you wrote and what I was replying to:



As I said in reply and still say now: You stated confidently, as an absolute fact, that whatever god you believe in took control of Stanislav Petrov and acted through him.
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No, don't start this. I am not certain of anything. I posted an anectote to try to show how I felt about humanity/god. If you want to dissect my post well then fine, but I did not mean to have any kind of certainty behind it.

I certainly was not certain. (is even possible to feel that way idk)
 
Aiden92 said:
I think if we were to keep discussing this it would end up a circular argment. At the end of the day, I dont know, and I hope you realise you do not know either. So what are we left with then.
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I know I don't know, but I'm not making any claims as to how anything came about or how an unproven deity behaves - we're left with the most honest answer possible: "we don't know".

Your quote from earlier:
Aiden92 said:
See this is what I don't like, ppl posting how there is a god or there isn't a god. HOW DO YOU KNOW
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It's quite easy - we compare and contrast what this god can do (and how it behaves) with gods that we already know to exist or have existed. Except we can't - no one has demonstrated to any significant degree that any of the thousands of gods from the past were actually real.

I have no good reason to believe a god exists anymore than I should believe that unicorns, Santa, angels, etc, exist.
 
ttaskmaster said:
But what if it is a supernatural entity and can hand you a pencil?
Do you roll D20 for fortitude save, or just run screaming and try to dial the Ghostbusters?
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None of those of course. You apply other BS detection tests. And save your anger till you're done. Or, to segue with your proposition - if passes all those tests - repeat them with recording equipment. Then call the department of defense, or a psychiatrist.
 
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Aiden92 said:
No, don't start this. I am not certain of anything. I posted an anectote to try to show how I felt about humanity/god. If you want to dissect my post well then fine, but I did not mean to have any kind of certainty behind it.

I certainly was not certain. (is even possible to feel that way idk)
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I wasn't dissecting your post. You weren't posting an anecdote. You were stating, explicitly and repeatedly, that you were certain that (a) your god exists and (b) your god takes control of people and acts through them (because you believe no human can make a good and brave decision). I was and am going only on what you wrote, clearly, explicitly and repeatedly.

Now that you've written that you didn't mean what you wrote before, fine. Anyone can express their position inaccurately - a complex language is necessary and useful but not infallible. Just as I was going only on what you wrote before, I am going only on what you write now. I am curious as to why you would choose to express your uncertainty by expressing your certainty and even shouting your certainty ("there has to be SOMETHING. this CANNOT be it." and "No. Something held him back.") but just as I took your words for your position before I will do so again.

I'm also not certain, since the existence of god(s) is (deliberately) a non-falsifiable hypothesis. But I am uncertain in the same way that I am uncertain about the existence of undetectable pixies that use magic to make planes fly and orbiting teapots and Hogwarts and Jedi and suchlike - I can't prove that they don't exist but I have no reason to believe that they do.

In general, god(s) is/are ignorance. When people were ignorant of how lightning happens, lightning was caused by a god. When people were ignorant of how disease happens, disease was caused by a god. When people are ignorant of how a human can make a decision, decisions are made by a god. When people are ignorant of how abiogenesis happened, abiogenesis is caused by a god.

I choose not to worship ignorance.
 
there has to be SOMETHING. this CANNOT be it

I stand by this, though

I have been through enough un-happy times. There has to be something else.
 
@Aiden92

Approximately 105 billion people have lived upon the earth.

https://www.google.com/url?q=https:...gQFnoECAsQAg&usg=AOvVaw0PgwHAGPhMkrVy7XtzYGcJ

All have had to deal with misery. Might skill at doing so just be a normal part of growing up and improve with practice?

Q. Do you read Shakespeare?

Or Kipling: If

https://poets.org/poem/if

Nb. In case you are quite young, Kipling wrote The Jungle Book. Page below has some images from the original Disney do:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-au/p/the-jungle-book/8d6kgwzl5tmr?activetab=pivot:overviewtab
 
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