Another 2070super vs 5700XT thread...

[Memphis Raines]

It seems theres many different reasons for struggling to decide which way to go on this one...
I have a MSI 1070 Armor OC, i run games at 1440p 60Hz
the 1070 manages ok, with some settings reduced from Ultra to High etc but i would like that bit extra..


the 2070S is pricey (as we all know...) So i would be looking at the cheaper end, like the

KFA2 GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER EX Gamer OC Triple Fan £479.99

So, the RTX cards seem to have a higher failure rate.. but are generally the better, faster, quieter, more overclockable card and have ray tracing...


Now for the 5700XT, the highest end cards are the same as the above, but the cheaper ones are loud and overheat.. so i have realised the best card to be the

MSI Radeon RX 5700 XT Gaming X £449.99

RX cards are marginally cheaper, for a better brand and cooler, but are still louder, not as powerful, hotter, use more energy (esp when overclocking) oh and AMD drivers are rubbish..

 

[TheRealDeal]

This is probably the best 5700xt and is cheaper than the one you linked. £428.99

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/sapp...ddr6-pci-express-graphics-card-gx-38z-sp.html

Another would be this at £399.99

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/sapp...ddr6-pci-express-graphics-card-gx-38x-sp.html

Both 5700xt/2070s overclock around the same. None of them are great in this department. The 2070s is the faster chip so it's about deciding if you want that little bit of extra speed for extra cash is worth it. AMD's drivers are not rubbish so not sure where you got that from.

The KFA 2070 you listed might be priced low but it's a good card from the reviews i have seen. Being a triple fan design it is probably up there with some of the higher end designs but priced lower because of the KFA branding. So really up to you if the extra speed and RTX is worth the extra.

Also the AMD cards are not louder either. So much misinformation going on. They will use a bit more power but nothing noticeable.

https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/powercolor_5700_red_devil_review,11.html

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/sapphire-radeon-rx-5700-xt-nitro/31.html

 

[Kelt]

Save your cash for the next round of cards due next year.

 

[Memphis Raines]

This is probably the best 5700xt and is cheaper than the one you linked. £428.99

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/sapp...ddr6-pci-express-graphics-card-gx-38z-sp.html

Another would be this at £399.99

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/sapp...ddr6-pci-express-graphics-card-gx-38x-sp.html

Both 5700xt/2070s overclock around the same. None of them are great in this department. The 2070s is the faster chip so it's about deciding if you want that little bit of extra speed for extra cash is worth it. AMD's drivers are not rubbish so not sure where you got that from.

The KFA 2070 you listed might be priced low but it's a good card from the reviews i have seen. Being a triple fan design it is probably up there with some of the higher end designs but priced lower because of the KFA branding. So really up to you if the extra speed and RTX is worth the extra.

Also the AMD cards are not louder either. So much misinformation going on. They will use a bit more power but nothing noticeable.

https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/powercolor_5700_red_devil_review,11.html

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/sapphire-radeon-rx-5700-xt-nitro/31.html

You are right that there are some conflicting reviews out there about the AMD cards... The Pulse is tempting being sub 400, but i worry about resale value compared to that of the Nitro+ (tho would there be much more than the £30 saving anyway.. prob not!)

however for the games i play there is a moderate fps jump at 1440p over to the 2070s ..

Save your cash for the next round of cards due next year.

next years a long way off.. and i've not even heard anything about and next gen roadmaps,

 

[Orange Nexus]

1440/60 should be easy on both cards. I use 4K on my XT. Had 11 kills in one round of Apex last weekend. Sorry to brag. lol. Some games are easy and not too demanding.

Could be the anti-lag feature

 

[TNA]

It amazes me that even in 2019 people still say AMDs drivers are rubbish. How uninformed can one be? Let’s parrot what we read from 10-20 years ago.. Lol

 

[LoadsaMoney]

It amazes me that even in 2019 people still say AMDs drivers are rubbish. How uninformed can one be? Let’s parrot what we read from 10-20 years ago.. Lol

AMD will never get rid of that unfortunately.

 

[Memphis Raines]

Hah it seems some YouTube channels are at fault for a lot of wrong info around amd..

Are you guys going to say the RTX cards aren't failing as well.. I have seen so many broken cards on ebay all with similar problems of loading windows but crashing when loading games etc

 

[Poneros]

It amazes me that even in 2019 people still say AMDs drivers are rubbish. How uninformed can one be? Let’s parrot what we read from 10-20 years ago.. Lol

AMD's drivers for Navi have been rubbish though. Let's not ignore how long it takes them to get them up to snuff, it was the same story for Vega (which are now great).

@Memphis Raines I'd say don't bother with an upgrade yet. The jump isn't really there for the money going from a 1070 and you are only playing at 1440p 60hz, which is so easily tweakable it's insane. The 5700/XT are decent value, but kinda featureless and drivers still have kinks to work out as you've said. On the other hand, 2070S is expensive and Turing is half-way through its life, which means once the next-gen arrives next year Turing will be kicked to the curb and the performance from newer titles will be less than the price you've paid for it. What I mean is, I was looking just recently at a 2070 vs 1080 benchmark suite and what I noticed is how much Nvidia has abandoned the 1080 in newer games where the power level instead of being equal is solidly ahead for the 2070. That's why for longevity buying Nvidia leaves a bitter taste and is best done at launch if at all, sort of the reverse of AMD, where you don't really want it at launch but it's gonna be great later on and for more years.

If you really want more power & to tide you over for a year or so, I'd say look at RADEON RX 5700 MECH. It's £330 and you can unlock power to get it to 5700 XT levels more or less, while not being too noisy like the blower cards. It's not going to be too difficult to sell it off next year and go for a bigger badder card that's next-gen.

 

[TNA]

AMD's drivers for Navi have been rubbish though. Let's not ignore how long it takes them to get them up to snuff, it was the same story for Vega (which are now great).

@Memphis Raines I'd say don't bother with an upgrade yet. The jump isn't really there for the money going from a 1070 and you are only playing at 1440p 60hz, which is so easily tweakable it's insane. The 5700/XT are decent value, but kinda featureless and drivers still have kinks to work out as you've said. On the other hand, 2070S is expensive and Turing is half-way through its life, which means once the next-gen arrives next year Turing will be kicked to the curb and the performance from newer titles will be less than the price you've paid for it. What I mean is, I was looking just recently at a 2070 vs 1080 benchmark suite and what I noticed is how much Nvidia has abandoned the 1080 in newer games where the power level instead of being equal is solidly ahead for the 2070. That's why for longevity buying Nvidia leaves a bitter taste and is best done at launch if at all, sort of the reverse of AMD, where you don't really want it at launch but it's gonna be great later on and for more years.

If you really want more power & to tide you over for a year or so, I'd say look at RADEON RX 5700 MECH. It's £330 and you can unlock power to get it to 5700 XT levels more or less, while not being too noisy like the blower cards. It's not going to be too difficult to sell it off next year and go for a bigger badder card that's next-gen.

All I can tell you is my experience after owning loads of gpu's from each company. I am on a Vega now, no issues and the UI looks like it belongs in this century. With Nvidia it looks like from Windows XP days. Lol.

What I think the issue with AMD is when launching a product their drivers maybe poor for a couple of months maybe which then sticks with them. Not purchased a AMD card on launch for a long time myself, so never had any issues.

 

[atomixers]

From my admitedly limited experience in the last couple of weeks the drivers for the AMD Navi cards do seem a bit sketchy at the moment. Seem to be better with DX12 titles so it depends on what you're playing. Hopefully they will improve in time, but given that 2 of the most regarded 5700 XT cards (Sapphire Nitro+ and Powercolor Red Devil) are now down to £428 with the bonus games its a pretty good deal.

 

[BigBANGtheory]

2070S and the 5700 XT are not great upgrade options for a 1070 imho they just aren't fast enough, I'd wait it out personally for big Navi or 3000 series unless you need a solution right away.

 

[EastCoastHandle]

AMD's drivers for Navi have been rubbish though. Let's not ignore how long it takes them to get them up to snuff, it was the same story for Vega (which are now great).

@Memphis Raines I'd say don't bother with an upgrade yet. The jump isn't really there for the money going from a 1070 and you are only playing at 1440p 60hz, which is so easily tweakable it's insane. The 5700/XT are decent value, but kinda featureless and drivers still have kinks to work out as you've said. On the other hand, 2070S is expensive and Turing is half-way through its life, which means once the next-gen arrives next year Turing will be kicked to the curb and the performance from newer titles will be less than the price you've paid for it. What I mean is, I was looking just recently at a 2070 vs 1080 benchmark suite and what I noticed is how much Nvidia has abandoned the 1080 in newer games where the power level instead of being equal is solidly ahead for the 2070. That's why for longevity buying Nvidia leaves a bitter taste and is best done at launch if at all, sort of the reverse of AMD, where you don't really want it at launch but it's gonna be great later on and for more years.

If you really want more power & to tide you over for a year or so, I'd say look at RADEON RX 5700 MECH. It's £330 and you can unlock power to get it to 5700 XT levels more or less, while not being too noisy like the blower cards. It's not going to be too difficult to sell it off next year and go for a bigger badder card that's next-gen.

This is a pretty fair assessment of the situation @Memphis Raines

I had a heck of a time getting my Nitro 5700 XT up to snuff but finally got things going. Right now the OSD is an issue that AMD needs to fix (causing blackscreen in certain games, not showing FPS or not working at all). Another thing, if you use Navi you need a dual pcie cables. A lot, and I do mean a lot, of folk who have intermient issues seem to resolve themselves once they stop using a single cable for both pcie connectors.

If the next gen AMD cards are indeed a "Geforce Killer" (Rumored: Chiplet design) is true (which I believe it is) Nvidia won't waste time releasing their next gen video cards in an attempt to saturate the market. I wouldn't be surprised if something announced or hinted to before end of year 12/31/19 from nvidia. So if you do buy a 2070S, as Poneros indicated would put you at a disadvantage.

 

[I kill Bunnies]

Keep the 1070 and see what AMD come out with toward the end of 2020 with their new GPUs.

 

[Chrisc]

It amazes me that even in 2019 people still say AMDs drivers are rubbish. How uninformed can one be? Let’s parrot what we read from 10-20 years ago.. Lol

Completely agree, however they have had some recent issues with the drivers on the Navi cards?

 

[greatash]

2070S and the 5700 XT are not great upgrade options for a 1070 imho they just aren't fast enough, I'd wait it out personally for big Navi or 3000 series unless you need a solution right away.

This, its not worth the £400-500 outlay.

 

[TNA]

Completely agree, however they have had some recent issues with the drivers on the Navi cards?

Did not know that until today, but people just say AMD have rubbish drivers all the time, even before Navi and before Vega etc... That has not been true for a very long time.

Nvidia had troubles for a while a couple of years back as I recall, no one went about saying that Nvidia have rubbish drivers. Lol

 

[EastCoastHandle]

Did not know that until today, but people just say AMD have rubbish drivers all the time, even before Navi and before Vega etc... That has not been true for a very long time.

Nvidia had troubles for a while a couple of years back as I recall, no one went about saying that Nvidia have rubbish drivers. Lol

This is very true AMD has been on par with Drivers. Even when new arch was released in the past. However, with the release of Navi there have been some issues.
-Wattman ignoring min clock rates
-OSD causing black screen in certain games
-Lower then expected performance/drop in gpu usage/lower framerates
-Comptibility issues with MSI Afterburner even after MSI Afterburner updated to show comptability
-Odd downclocking from wattman even though thermals and power delivery is correct.


Some of the fixes may not be even related to drivers. But AMD needs to get ahead of this to inform their user base.
-Older chipsets drivers needs updates. If the manufacture doesn't have any update you manually check for them using Device Manager
-AMD Drivers appear to be made for win10 1903 as wddm 2.6 is only supported by 1903 so far. In order to take advantage of wddm 2.6 you have to have win10 1903. Type in search box: Dxdiag to find out for yourself if you are not using 1903.
-Use 2 separate pcie cables to power Navi cards. Do not use a daisy chain pcie cable. If that's all your PSU offers don't use the pcie cable on the end.
-Use a PSU above the recommended specs of 600W-650W. In part, PSU are "graded" on their efficiency.

What this means is if you have a 600W Plus PSU and the card requires 600W you may in fact still have problems (from what I've read). Depending on how much your your PC requires you don't have enough reserve power for Navi.
For example: 5700XT Tiachi (which we know consumes the most power) + 9900K overclocked to 5.1Ghz using a 600W Plus PSU (3 hard drives, 5-7 fans, may use a watercooling solution, pcie sound card, etc). Can easily get you over 500Watts.

Any way, not to get off topic but for Navi having an over provisioned PSU is more of thing for Navi then any other gpu at the moment.

This is where I see AMD dropping the ball here. They need to communicate to their customer base non driver related issues. Or else people will continue to think that non driver related issues are driver related.

 

[atomixers]

That’s a very useful post EastCoastHandle. It would be great if information like this was made more available to people with problems but I’m sure AMD’s marketing department wouldn’t be keen on it.

 

[EastCoastHandle]

That’s a very useful post EastCoastHandle. It would be great if information like this was made more available to people with problems but I’m sure AMD’s marketing department wouldn’t be keen on it.

Thanks, the gist is that for PSU go with a Gold, Platinum or Titanium 80Plus certified PSUs. Not all PSUs are the same though.
Since we know that Navi need 600W we should be using at least a 850Watt Gold or higher 80Plus PSU, IMHO.
Never the bare minimum.