When are you going fully electric?

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In theory:

The average driver does 7800 miles per year, which averages to 21.4 miles per day. So the average driver needs approximately 5.3kWh of electricity per day.

If the car is plugged in for 12 hours, charging at 7.2kW, a single overnight charge session would allow 86.4kWh of electricity to be added to the battery. That's enough to cover 16 days of driving. Or to put it another way, 16 cars could theoretically share one charger.

Yeah, this is a very flawed calculation. But it does illustrate that we don't need one charger for every parking space or car.
 
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Just look up what the public thought about it. DAB has a worse reception and the sound quality is actually worse. Radio stations in Norway lost a lot of listeners.

Nah, it is still in the beginning - they would eventually learn to improve the quality via bit-rate and the signal via improving the signal power, installment of new antennas.

FM is so old and obsolete. It's not fair to use a primitive technology from the 19th century lol
 
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Exactly, new doesnt automatically mean it's better. DAB is being pushed by the companies invested in it, its profit driven rather than an improvement.
 
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Yeah, this is a very flawed calculation. But it does illustrate that we don't need one charger for every parking space or car.
the logistics/discipline of rotating the cars through the limited charger positions does seem problematic though ?
if the cars were self-drive too, then maybe they could move themsleves (with a robot plugin), but otherwise even with an appointment system, you would find yourself getting up in the night to move the car, or turning up at the charger a 7am, sitting watching netflix, like the recent M3 discourse.
I haven't seen what the efficiency of the wireless charging option is (even for phones)

(per earlier comment) I still didn't find any information on subsidies available for UK companies to install public chargers, or what the projections are for the UK;
are the manufacturers, a-la tesla, going to have to develop the networks themselves.
 
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the logistics/discipline of rotating the cars through the limited charger positions does seem problematic though ?
if the cars were self-drive too, then maybe they could move themsleves (with a robot plugin), but otherwise even with an appointment system, you would find yourself getting up in the night to move the car, or turning up at the charger a 7am, sitting watching netflix, like the recent M3 discourse.
I haven't seen what the efficiency of the wireless charging option is (even for phones)

(per earlier comment) I still didn't find any information on subsidies available for UK companies to install public chargers, or what the projections are for the UK;
are the manufacturers, a-la tesla, going to have to develop the networks themselves.

You don't need to charge the car every day. Put it this way, do you go and fill your petrol car every day?

The point is most drivers don't do high mileage, average commute is iirc 13 miles, so 26 miles a day. If the car has a range of 200 miles (lets go low here), at the end of day 1 why would you be going OMG I only have 174 miles of range left, and tomorrow I need to drive 26 miles!!!11!

Why would it be different to getting in your car tonight and going OMG only half a tank, and tomorrow I could possibly use as much as 5 litres!
 
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Why would it be different to getting in your car tonight and going OMG only half a tank, and tomorrow I could possibly use as much as 5 litres!

I think it's different because it takes longer so people feel like they need to plan more and get anxious easier. For instance, I know I can pop into a petrol station very, very easily and go from 0 miles left to 700+ in a space of <5 minutes.
 
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the logistics/discipline of rotating the cars through the limited charger positions does seem problematic though ?

If battery capacity wasn't a limiting factor, a car that always travels the daily average mileage could be plugged in to a 7.2kW charger tonight for 12 hours, and then wouldn't need to be plugged in again for 16 days.

If you had 16 of these cars, they could all use a single charger. The only scheduling which would be needed is the allocation of a "charging day". And for the other 12 hours each day, the charger would be idle (meaning, in a perfect world, 32 cars could be possible).

Now clearly this isn't reasonable. People don't drive average miles every day. But the point was to illustrate that we don't necessarily need one charger for every single electric vehicle. If you had, for example, a 64kWh Kona and charged from 40% to 100% twice per week, you'd likely be driving somewhere in the region of double the average annual mileage. The charger would only actually be active for around 11 hours per week.
 
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I think it's different because it takes longer so people feel like they need to plan more and get anxious easier. For instance, I know I can pop into a petrol station very, very easily and go from 0 miles left to 700+ in a space of <5 minutes.

Yes, partly agree.
Most people don't have cars that do 700+ though, no petrol will, most diesels wont really.
I didn't used to have range anxiety (which is what your saying people will have) when I had a car that would just about manage 300 on a long run, that would be lucky to do 200 round town/urban

I don't think most people will have the range anxiety once they switch. When you are used to having a car that shows 600+ miles when full its great, but how often, genuinely do people need it? A tiny tiny fraction of the time.

Yes it will require some slight change to the way people think. The only two times I do remember having range anxiety were both in diesels. One time we decided to drive to the Dartmoor zoo (was on TV at the time) about 350 miles from home, we booked a hotel and set off, I had about 400 miles in the tank, planned to fill up on the way, but got stuck in horrible traffic, when i did pull into a station it didn't have diesel!!!11 so we set off again and didn't see another for miles. I think I had 7 miles or something when we filled up. Other time I had cut it a bit short and needed to go fill up on way to work, pulled into Tesco to find they had just shut the station completely as it was the final stage of the store refurbishment. I didn't know specifically of another staion that was in the same direction, or I could have turned round and driven about 10 miles in the opposite dierction, now I know of another station when I didn't at the time as only just moved house. I drove to work as there is a station opposite.

When EV is really mainstream there is going to be far more charging available. I predict supermarkets will have far more, great way to get you to nip in. And the big difference, compared to petrol stations you can put charging practically anywhere.
Virtually any parking spot can also be a charging point, you cant do that with petrol stations. And my experience of petrol stations is it rarely takes 5 minutes, very rare to just pull in and no one be there.

As we have seen charge time has improved a lot, its only ever going to get so good. We will just have to accept its going to change the dynamic slightly compared to what we have had.
10-20 miles range gain per minute is about the ideal for me as a minimum. I used to be one to drive non stop, often (in old job) doing 300+ mile drives non stop. Now I tend to stop every 2-3 hours, not for long, just long enough to stretch my legs, get a coffee, fill up the car, have a pee etc. I find it doesnt make that much diff when doing a long drive, typically 1 or 2 stops, and you feel far better when arriving having had that small break

I suppose its like comparing mobiles, people currently have charge anxiety because phones burn through battery, i used to have a mobile I charged weekly at best, often far less frequently. I didnt need to charge it daily, so i didnt.
When people find that can charge say twice a week or even longer really they will start to relax a bit.
Which is why for a lot of people switching at the right time will be important, if they go too early the disruption will be more
 
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Anxiety is part of it. If you run out of petrol its not really a huge deal. If your batteries run flat, much hassle.

Run out of petrol is still a pretty big deal, you have to go get some. Sure you can carry a can, but what if you dont know where to go, or its 5 miles walk, its raining, and dark and no one seems to be about. You should be able to put a can in, and prime the system granted.
Diesel not so easy, plenty wont prime from 100% empty.

Really its bad planning to be running out / nearly running out of petrol/diesel, just the same as it will be with EVs.

Most petrols dont have a range significantly better than the newer Evs, so the range thing unless doing regular extended versions is a bit mute.
The model 3 is a perfect example of why its less of an issue than people think, why make an extended range version, and not make every one the extended range version? Simply for most people the range of the normal version is fine, there is no need to lug around the extra batteries.
 
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Really its bad planning to be running out / nearly running out of petrol/diesel, just the same as it will be with EVs.

You have to be an absolute tool to make any vehicle run out of fuel, be it gas/oil/electrons. I don't know why they would give anyone a license who allows that to happen, it can/is dangerous for the person who is now stranded, and also for the other using the road, especially in the case of A-roads/motorways. With a BEV literally any premeis you pass with an electricity supply can be a 'refueling' point using the normal 3-pin plug. I'[d love to see someone knocking on my door asking if I can quickly refine some oil for them :D
 
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Yes, partly agree.
Most people don't have cars that do 700+ though, no petrol will, most diesels wont really.
I didn't used to have range anxiety (which is what your saying people will have) when I had a car that would just about manage 300 on a long run, that would be lucky to do 200 round town/urban

I don't think most people will have the range anxiety once they switch. When you are used to having a car that shows 600+ miles when full its great, but how often, genuinely do people need it? A tiny tiny fraction of the time.
Range anxiety is not about how few miles you have left, it's about the difficulty of 'filling up'.
 
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Range anxiety is not about how few miles you have left, it's about the difficulty of 'filling up'.

Which if you have enough brain cells is already not an issue and will continue to become less and less of an issue as time passes

At the same time, continuing a trend thats been going on for some time, the number of petrol stations continues to fall. When Ev really takes off there is only 2 scenarios for petrol stations, either 1, they charge a lot more seeing as they will see far less volume, or 2, a lot will close so that those that remain keep a reasonable level of trade and hence can not hike the price a lot, but then with lower competition...

No matter what, the range and difficulty of "filling up" is going to skew further and further towards the Ev as time passes

Range anxiety is the balance of distance you can travel and availabilty to fill up. Neither is a problem until both become an issue at the same time.
 
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If the car has a range of 200 miles (lets go low here), at the end of day 1 why would you be going OMG I only have 174 miles of range left, and tomorrow I need to drive 26 miles!!!11!
lol, my mom: "petrol's getting down, can you fill it up for me?" I check; needle's above the 1/2 mark, on a car that does 40+mpg for a woman who averaged 2 or 3 mile trips and about 2000 miles a year at most.

hopefully, the charging issue will become less of an issue if the government get their arses in gear and more and more roads get the inductive charging (or whatever it's called) built in.
 
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Anxiety is part of it. If you run out of petrol its not really a huge deal. If your batteries run flat, much hassle.
That's not a problem for everyone. I am more likely to run out of fuel and have more anxiety and hassle getting fuel then charging up batteries. Compared to batteries fuelling up patrol cars takes massively more time for me and is way more hassle. Realistically based on an average drive batteries are never going to go flat for me.

If you did somehow run out of fuel depending on location its can be far easier to get an extension cable and find a power socket then it is to get replacement fuel when you have none left to drive.

There is just no point in me ever buying another patrol car. I also take it by your silence to my previous posts you know your comments on batteries was wrong and we where correct.

EDIT: One of the things I like about Electric cars is the time saved and lack of hassle keeping it fuelled up on top of the cost savings. A patrol car is way more hassle having to plan where and when to fuel it up all for a higher cost and way more time taken.
 
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There's a clear divide in this thread between people who actually have experience with living and using an electric car. And usually enjoy it and see how easy it is to do. And those who don't. It's easy to be cynical and sit on the sidelines making excuses, but fact of the matter is it's where things are headed. And people will either adopt the technology willingly or be dragged along kicking and screaming.

I've driven various electric cars for several years now, only using public charging the vast majority of the time. I've never once run out of battery and find them completely stress-free to drive and charge. I agree that public infrastructure needs improving before proper expansion of electric vehicles is possible and it's certainly better in some regions than others. The government's OLEV (Office for Low Emission Vehicles) has lots of funding set aside and is helping expansion. Some local councils mandate a certain number of charging points for new buildings with on-site parking and some have conversion targets for public parking spaces of a certain size.
 
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In theory:

The average driver does 7800 miles per year, which averages to 21.4 miles per day. So the average driver needs approximately 5.3kWh of electricity per day.

If the car is plugged in for 12 hours, charging at 7.2kW, a single overnight charge session would allow 86.4kWh of electricity to be added to the battery. That's enough to cover 16 days of driving. Or to put it another way, 16 cars could theoretically share one charger.

Yeah, this is a very flawed calculation. But it does illustrate that we don't need one charger for every parking space or car.
As soon as you introduce a limited amount of charging points for multiple cars in communal overnight parking areas people will start plugging in when they have 90% range remaining just to reserve "their" charger. You know, 'just in case I might need it'. It will be the same mentality as people owning the parking spot outside their own house. They have no more right over it than anyone else but in their mind it is theirs and not for anyone else to use.

I'd still love to go electric but my employer isn't going to pony up the cash for an EV with the sort of range I need and sometimes I do silly miles in a day and don't really fancy becoming more acquainted with service stations than I already am.
 
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