Opinions on the "small SUV" type cars?
- Thread starter StevieP
- Start date
Most peoples problem with driving stem from being scared so to feel better is good.
Andi.
Ah the old Top Trumps makes it all the better
People have different needs and thoughts about everything they buy. Cars seem to be what people like, not whether it has an extra unused inch of leg room.
Andi.
you need to drive country roads or it is urban driving ?
I can see the attraction of them for urban with the access/loading ease ...
however, in the country scenario , the passive safety and manouverability with a low centre of mavity for a non-suv should be compared;
there's a loss of mpg too if she's doing non-urban/ higher speeds in the mini suv, down from near 60, to 50.
Yet you brought boot volume in to it?
Source?
Yes, 1in 20 chance rather than a 1 in 40 chance. Offset by the additional weight and height, high means a general reduction in injury and death for the occupants.
We are not the 1990s any more, especially with small CUVs. They aren’t body on frame vehicles, are generally built on the same platform as the equivalent car and have a suite of safety features massively reducing the chance of rolling etc.
CUVs are generally safer than the equivalent car, and the safest consumer vehicles on the road are the larger CUV/SUVs, not larger cars.
That said, while I’m an advocate of larger CUVs (X-Trail/CRV/Yeti size) due them being bigger internally than the equivalent size car, I struggle to see the same benefits of the smaller ones (like the Juke/T-rock/GLA etc), which generally seem to take what would be a perfectly good small hatch and ruin them.
The first part is accurate, but neglects to mention that multi car collisions make up the majority of accidents.
You also can’t use the NCAP tests the way you are. Most of the stats are only relevant to the class of vehicle they’re in, so you can’t compare (for example) a small hatch to a large SUV. I’m surprise you’ve found a mixed list of cars, because they usually only compare class to class. Do you have a link to it?
Best option is to choose the class of vehicle you want and then look at NCAP and see which is best in class. If you truly only want the safest (for occupants) vehicle on the road then get the biggest vehicle you can find essentially.
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I do think the SUV revolution is a bit of a shame – they are everywhere now and it feels like much of the benefit is style or perception rather than practical reality. Consequently we end up with carparks filled full of enormous buses and queues of traffic you can’t see round. Couple the SUV trend with the diesel backlash and the result is a vehicle fleet with increasing CO2 emissions and rubbish fuel efficiency...
I’ve extensively driven what could probably be argued to be two of the best SUV’s – the current G05 BMW X5 (2000 miles around Europe earlier this year) and the current Audi Q7 (2000 miles in Australia last year) and whilst they were both excellent cars that I thoroughly enjoyed neither of them did anything the equivalent estate didn’t do better and everything I liked about them (ie the tech and the smooth powertrain in the X5) also applied to the estate on which they are based. The X5 particularly was a nuisance on many of the roads we found ourselves on – a 5 Series is a fine companion for a long distance road trip involving both motorways and twisty mountain roads, the X5 by contrast was at home (Though supremely thirsty) on the Motorway but felt like a liability in the mountains – it was quick but you had to scrub virtually all that speed off at most corners as it just couldn’t hide its considerable bulk.
All whilst costing more money, going slower, using more fuel, offering no real space advantage and handling worse than an estate.
I enjoyed renting both but I have now added ‘No SUV please’ to my profile so I don’t get another (I specifically booked the Q7 but the X5 was given as an upgrade to the 530d I’d booked).
Interestingly I rented a 6 Series GT last year (Which I enjoyed so much I managed to talk my Dad into buying one for himself) and wow, what a shame these are so polarising in the looks department – because it seemed to offer the best of an estate and an SUV in one luxury package. More load space than a 5 Series touring, more space inside, stunning spec but without feeling like you’re going to fall off at every Motorway exit.
Still, the SUV is at least less annoying than the most annoying of hipster lifestyle trends – the Volkswagen Transporter. So theres that, I guess.
I’ve extensively driven what could probably be argued to be two of the best SUV’s – the current G05 BMW X5 (2000 miles around Europe earlier this year) and the current Audi Q7 (2000 miles in Australia last year) and whilst they were both excellent cars that I thoroughly enjoyed neither of them did anything the equivalent estate didn’t do better and everything I liked about them (ie the tech and the smooth powertrain in the X5) also applied to the estate on which they are based. The X5 particularly was a nuisance on many of the roads we found ourselves on – a 5 Series is a fine companion for a long distance road trip involving both motorways and twisty mountain roads, the X5 by contrast was at home (Though supremely thirsty) on the Motorway but felt like a liability in the mountains – it was quick but you had to scrub virtually all that speed off at most corners as it just couldn’t hide its considerable bulk.
All whilst costing more money, going slower, using more fuel, offering no real space advantage and handling worse than an estate.
I enjoyed renting both but I have now added ‘No SUV please’ to my profile so I don’t get another (I specifically booked the Q7 but the X5 was given as an upgrade to the 530d I’d booked).
Interestingly I rented a 6 Series GT last year (Which I enjoyed so much I managed to talk my Dad into buying one for himself) and wow, what a shame these are so polarising in the looks department – because it seemed to offer the best of an estate and an SUV in one luxury package. More load space than a 5 Series touring, more space inside, stunning spec but without feeling like you’re going to fall off at every Motorway exit.
Still, the SUV is at least less annoying than the most annoying of hipster lifestyle trends – the Volkswagen Transporter. So theres that, I guess.
I have a mini countryman S E (the hybrid one) and I really like it. It's pretty quick (in a useable sense), drives well, plenty of space in boot and cabin, nice place to be and less obnoxious than my outgoing X5 (which was my second of those).
Source?
Sorry, but I just don't believe that for a min.
The issue of increased chance of rollover has already been covered.
Additionally, any SUV is going to be heavier that it's equivalent hatchback, which is going to have a direct impact upon it's ability to stop (or NOT as the case may be), and that has nothing to do with brakes, more the absolute capability of tyres to stop a heavier vehicle.
In short, you're paying for basically a jacked up hatchback, which costs more, weighs more and because of it's weight, is less safe and consumes more fuel.
And why do I care?
It's usually some SUV that's tailgating me because he "feels" safer in his lump of lard, and when he does overtake me, presents a visual obstacle that's higher than my vehicle and often has privacy glass, thus reducing my own ability to see what's infront of him.
Soldato
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Interesting views, not a million miles away from mine.
I found that the more recent ones handle far better than the older ones. Far less obvious difference in ability to corner, but they feel far worse. Like comparing a 80/90s car to a modern one, they used to roll that much more yet didn't really actually corner that much slower.
The visibility thing is hard to get away from. I think the more SUVs you get, the more the visibility feels compromised in a "normal" car. Driving to my allotment in my TT there are places I have to go super slow as I cant see round the parked SUVs, when I take my other halves X1 I can see through the other cars windows and hence actually don't need to slow as much. I now find i am often struggling to see to pull out of junctions if there are cars turning right and left since there is a high chance I wont be able to see past a SUV. It used to be lorries and vans, now its also SUVs. Typically the shape doesn't help as compared to a saloon they have far less bonnet, or its far higher up.
There are some benefits. I'm of the rather odd demographic where I own an SUV, but I too, would rather own an estate car. We bought a Kia Sorento, but the primary reason was "we" (she) needed something which could tow a horse box safely, but which also going to be primarily used as a comfortable "car" (so not a pickup truck or similar). A larger SUV is ideal for that. Had it not been for that requirement, then I think I'd prefer an estate, too...the load space is cavernous, but so are some estates, and as you say, they'd handle better and use less fuel...although I'm not for a moment suggesting we needed excellent road handling for what is essentially a workhorse.
That said, I can see the appeal of other aspects too. The higher driving position is nice and makes for a comfortable cruiser by reducing that sensation of speed. It also makes it easier to get in and out of the car, and to load cargo. That might sound like a minor advantage, but my parents also own an SUV...a Honda CRV...and one of the key factors in buying that was that it was a much more comfortable car for mum and her aging knees to get in and out of. The minor hit on MPG as the result of the car being larger is a small price to pay especially as they're retired and not commuting in it. For those with young children, this is an advantage for even the smaller SUVs....its much easier to get them in and out of a child seat if the whole car is sitting higher anyway, which is probably a key reason they are so popular, even if that's the only advantage they offer over the equivalent hatchback. Despite what some people claim, it's not about "lording it over others"...I'm certainly under no illusion of superiority sitting behind the wheel of a Kia just becuase I'm higher up
. And whilst I'm sure there are a few people who buy these sorts of cars to flex, I reckon the majority are just interested in being able to get their kids in and out of it easily.There's also the comfort which comes from the wheel and suspension setup. The Kia has nice big chunky tyres and lots of spring travel which means it soaks up potholes and rough roads nicely. Now, I know that big tyres arent exclusive to SUVs, but it does seem like the trend for saloons and estates seems to be larger wheels and smaller tyres. Great for handling and aesthetics, less so for comfort, whereas most SUVs seem to have more substantial tyres.
If it wasn't for the need to tow a horse, I think I'd have gone for an estate. But I can see the appeal and advantage of SUVs, and I think its bizarre the bile their owners seem to attract for choosing them sometimes on here.
Oh, and totally with you on VW Transporters. They seem to exclusively be driven by a certain type of person
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because on the high/1m edged norfolk country roads I was on this weekend they come round corners, towards me, leaning over and generally too far away from road edge;
(I see an x5 is a foot wider than my car too)
- equally, day to day driving, need to modify driving style if you are following them, and hang further back, to drive economically, if you know you don't need to brake at a corner or roundabout, with usually slower progress, ok, I should be more tolerant.
their turning circle too where they can turn out towards me on an upcoming town junction - and their nose is on my side.
... I don't think thats unjustified bile ? I think the 'lording' thing went out with their ubiquity.
I don't necessarily get the suv comfort thing, depends if you like lean, but ok, even within the car domain, peugot's, renown for handling, used to lean more into the bend as opposed to flat , courteusy of the anti-roll-bar maybe intentionally transferring more force on the inside bend corner ?
if the cars' more manouverable you avoid potholes too.
]
good point -
because on the high/1m edged norfolk country roads I was on this weekend they come round corners, towards me, leaning over and generally too far away from road edge;
(I see an x5 is a foot wider than my car too)
- equally, day to day driving, need to modify driving style if you are following them, and hang further back, to drive economically, if you know you don't need to brake at a corner or roundabout, with usually slower progress, ok, I should be more tolerant.
their turning circle too where they can turn out towards me on an upcoming town junction - and their nose is on my side.
... I don't think thats unjustified bile ? I think the 'lording' thing went out with their ubiquity.
I don't necessarily get the suv comfort thing, depends if you like lean, but ok, even within the car domain, peugot's, renown for handling, used to lean more into the bend as opposed to flat , courteusy of the anti-roll-bar maybe intentionally transferring more force on the inside bend corner ?
if the cars' more manouverable you avoid potholes too.
]
There are some benefits. I'm of the rather odd demographic where I own an SUV, but I too, would rather own an estate car. We bought a Kia Sorento, but the primary reason was "we" (she) needed something which could tow a horse box safely, but which also going to be primarily used as a comfortable "car" (so not a pickup truck or similar). A larger SUV is ideal for that. Had it not been for that requirement, then I think I'd prefer an estate, too...the load space is cavernous, but so are some estates, and as you say, they'd handle better and use less fuel...although I'm not for a moment suggesting we needed excellent road handling for what is essentially a workhorse.
That said, I can see the appeal of other aspects too. The higher driving position is nice and makes for a comfortable cruiser by reducing that sensation of speed. It also makes it easier to get in and out of the car, and to load cargo. That might sound like a minor advantage, but my parents also own an SUV...a Honda CRV...and one of the key factors in buying that was that it was a much more comfortable car for mum and her aging knees to get in and out of. The minor hit on MPG as the result of the car being larger is a small price to pay especially as they're retired and not commuting in it. For those with young children, this is an advantage for even the smaller SUVs....its much easier to get them in and out of a child seat if the whole car is sitting higher anyway, which is probably a key reason they are so popular, even if that's the only advantage they offer over the equivalent hatchback. Despite what some people claim, it's not about "lording it over others"...I'm certainly under no illusion of superiority sitting behind the wheel of a Kia just becuase I'm higher up
There's also the comfort which comes from the wheel and suspension setup. The Kia has nice big chunky tyres and lots of spring travel which means it soaks up potholes and rough roads nicely. Now, I know that big tyres arent exclusive to SUVs, but it does seem like the trend for saloons and estates seems to be larger wheels and smaller tyres. Great for handling and aesthetics, less so for comfort, whereas most SUVs seem to have more substantial tyres.
If it wasn't for the need to tow a horse, I think I'd have gone for an estate. But I can see the appeal and advantage of SUVs, and I think its bizarre the bile their owners seem to attract for choosing them sometimes on here.
Oh, and totally with you on VW Transporters. They seem to exclusively be driven by a certain type of person
Bigger wheels and tyres are worse in every way, not only comfort. Its the weight of them which does it :\
Take a flat NCAP score, rather than compare per class
https://www.express.co.uk/life-styl...n-sale-UK-2019-Top-10-highest-Euro-NCAP-score
Such a true post!
Unfortunately the scores don’t work like that due to the testing, so you can’t compare most scores across classes (safety assist and pedestrian may be comparable). That’s why NCAPs safest car lists are all by class and they don’t have an official list like this.
As said, choose your class then compare vehicles within that class and select the one with the highest score (or passenger/child and safety assist score if you’re most interested in your own safety).
To give a simple example of this. You’re in a high speed collision between an A class (“safest” car according to the Express) and a Range Rover/7 Series. Which would you rather be in?
Then an HGV slams into that mess, hitting both at high speed. Which of the three vehicles would you rather be in then?
Any sane person would choose the HGV in the second part and the Range Rover in the first. That selection is backed up by injury/fatality statistics.