Anyone here with experience of storage heaters? Need some info/advice?

NeilF · 18 Dec 2019 at 19:56

So a storage heater, connected to night time economy 7 electricity, has an INPUT and OUTPUT dial ranging from 1-6.

The INPUT 1-6 controls how much heat is built up into it.
The OUTPUT 1-6 controls the rate at which heat is released.

Question 1: The storage heater doesn't care what the ambient room temperature is, or what the time of day is, the heat it releases is based simply on the OUTPUT value (assuming there's still heat within in)?

Question 2: At night time when the unit is receiving INPUT, and thus building up heat, if the OUTPUT is still set to a high number, I assume it will then be pumping out heat, just as it would during the day? ie: It knows no different?

So if you have it set to INPUT 6 and OUTPUT 6, during the night (economy 7 time) it will be heating up as much as possible AND letting out as much heat as it can too?

tonys · 18 Dec 2019 at 20:17

Yes that's how the ones I have seen work

UTmaniac · 18 Dec 2019 at 20:51

Yes.

It's common to set both to max on first night of using them after the summer, while increasing room ventilation.

NeilF · 18 Dec 2019 at 21:20

From what I've read, it's suggested (even in Winter) you turn the OUTPUT down to 1 (the lowest) over night, and then in the morning set it to a more sensible value such as 3-4 to then heat the house? I assume this is so you're not heating the house over night, and wasting energy?

With it set to an OUTPUT of 1 over night, I assuming if for example the INPUT is 4-6, then it will still release some heat anyway over night? ie: It can't keep 100% of the heat in surely?

Doobedoo · 18 Dec 2019 at 21:26

We have storage heaters and we used them once or maybe twice.

They heat the house up while we are at work and heat nothing while we are home, but one thing they did really well was to make our electricity disappear. Seriously they absolutely hoovered up our electric, so that was the first and defiantly the last time they will ever be used.

Decided to buy and fit an air source heat pump and never looked back, just need another for upstairs.

NeilF · 18 Dec 2019 at 21:32

Doobedoo said:
We have storage heaters and we used them once or maybe twice.

They heat the house up while we are at work and heat nothing while we are home, but one thing they did really well was to make our electricity disappear. Seriously they absolutely hoovered up our electric, so that was the first and defiantly the last time they will ever be used.

Decided to buy and fit an air source heat pump and never looked back, just need another for upstairs.

Interesting!

Well, we're looking into the electricity usage at my partner's father's flat, which has four of them. He had them all set to INPUT 6, and there's about 50-60kwh of energy disappearing a night, which is scary!

BigBoy · 18 Dec 2019 at 23:52

Input is a time so 6 = 6Hrs heating up, whilst they heat they cannot stop the heat from escaping, fact of thermodynamics. The Output should also be in hours, 6 = 6hrs of output, you can test this by opening up the unit (it is completely safe to do so as long as you do not interfere with the electrical components) as seeing the louvre open and close by degrees as you turn the knob.

Basically input is a timer, output controls a louvre. you do not have to heat the unit for 6 hours for it to reach max temperature by design they can only output a set amount of heat based on the max energy input normally 1.5-2kw of input energy per hour, after it has reached max heat all it will keep doing is topping off the heat by adding more input.

If the Heat sensor has failed then they will over run getting very hot costing a lot more money to operate. Also if the timer has failed then they will be running unchecked for the whole 7hr period. But even so the usage you are seeing is far from what a few storage heaters would use over night!

I did comment on your other thread, I work in metering and look at situations like this on a daily basis, if you can get a couple of pictures or a video of the meter installation I can offer further assistance.

NeilF · 19 Dec 2019 at 10:11

BigBoy said:
Input is a time so 6 = 6Hrs heating up, whilst they heat they cannot stop the heat from escaping, fact of thermodynamics. The Output should also be in hours, 6 = 6hrs of output, you can test this by opening up the unit (it is completely safe to do so as long as you do not interfere with the electrical components) as seeing the louvre open and close by degrees as you turn the knob.

Basically input is a timer, output controls a louvre. you do not have to heat the unit for 6 hours for it to reach max temperature by design they can only output a set amount of heat based on the max energy input normally 1.5-2kw of input energy per hour, after it has reached max heat all it will keep doing is topping off the heat by adding more input.

If the Heat sensor has failed then they will over run getting very hot costing a lot more money to operate. Also if the timer has failed then they will be running unchecked for the whole 7hr period. But even so the usage you are seeing is far from what a few storage heaters would use over night!

I did comment on your other thread, I work in metering and look at situations like this on a daily basis, if you can get a couple of pictures or a video of the meter installation I can offer further assistance.

First... thanks!

I think the first question is, would four storage heaters set to say 4/4 or even 6/6 overnight, be expected to consume say 50-60kwh of energy over that night? That seems to be the pattern at the moment, and 50-60kwh of energy to my mind seems a lot per night!

As regards the meter installation? What would be useful? Obviously it's type where it has two rates and you need to press a button to flick between them?

NOTE: These seem like old storage heaters. There's no room temperature setting or anything seemingly clever going on. Just an INPUT knob, and a hard to turn OUTPUT knob.

ps: Last night we did an experiment where we left the storage heaters set to 4 IN/1 OUT, and today I'll see how much difference that made to the night's consumption...

ttaskmaster · 19 Dec 2019 at 10:19

NeilFawcett said:
Anyone here with experience of storage heaters? Need some info/advice...

Yup - Move house, or get something else installed.
They're an expensive PITA.

NeilF · 19 Dec 2019 at 10:22

ttaskmaster said:
Yup - Move house, or get something else installed.
They're an expensive PITA.

They do look insanely archaic. Are electric heaters that simply only use electricity when required (by time and temp) not more efficient, than trying to store up a massive block of heat over night, every night?

Doobedoo · 19 Dec 2019 at 11:14

Yes but you’ll lose the benefit of cheap nighttime electricity rates.

The newer generation of storage heaters like the dimplex quantum are supposed to be much better but they cost a lot of money. I thought about it but couldn’t justify the outlay.

https://www.dimplex.co.uk/product/quantum-heater

Your other options are a wood burner or ashp’s. If you can install an ashp yourself, then they are very cost efficient, as well as being considerably more efficient than any electric heater.

https://www.cooleasy.co.uk/categori...0btu-air-conditioning-heat-pump-inverter.html

Gas central heating is the daddy at the moment but no use if like us you have no option of a gas supply.

NeilF · 19 Dec 2019 at 11:25

Doobedoo said:
Yes but you’ll lose the benefit of cheap nighttime electricity rates.

The newer generation of storage heaters like the dimplex quantum are supposed to be much better but they cost a lot of money. I thought about it but couldn’t justify the outlay.

https://www.dimplex.co.uk/product/quantum-heater

Your other options are a wood burner or ashp’s. If you can install an ashp yourself, then they are very cost efficient, as well as being considerably more efficient than any electric heater.

https://www.cooleasy.co.uk/categori...0btu-air-conditioning-heat-pump-inverter.html

Gas central heating is the daddy at the moment but no use if like us you have no option of a gas supply.

We're talking about a rented flat is a fairly "quaint" property...

I suspect if the 50kwh of energy usage each night is basically to be expected, and is hopefully down to simply not using the storage heaters correctly we'll (my other half's father) will just have to accept it, and see if we can be more efficients with their settings?

As I said above, we did a test last night turning the INPUT down to 4 (from 6) & the OUTPUT of the heaters down over night (all the way to 1), and then turning them back up in the morning, to see if that reduced the massive electricity usage. I'll see this evening (when I read the meter) what difference that makes...

Doobedoo · 19 Dec 2019 at 12:37

Has thought about only using 2 of the 4 storage heaters and only heating the rooms he will use the most, as in the front room and his bedroom. Perhaps try putting on some warmer clothes like thermal bottoms and top and some warmer socks.

Obviously we’d all like to walk around in our t-shirts but sometimes you’ve got to be sensible about it, especially if it’s costing too much money.

BigBoy · 19 Dec 2019 at 12:49

NeilFawcett said:
We're talking about a rented flat is a fairly "quaint" property...

I suspect if the 50kwh of energy usage each night is basically to be expected, and is hopefully down to simply not using the storage heaters correctly we'll (my other half's father) will just have to accept it, and see if we can be more efficients with their settings?

As I said above, we did a test last night turning the INPUT down to 4 (from 6) & the OUTPUT of the heaters down over night (all the way to 1), and then turning them back up in the morning, to see if that reduced the massive electricity usage. I'll see this evening (when I read the meter) what difference that makes...

A picture of the install is needed for me to determine if there are any install issues.

50kwh is far more than 6 heaters would use in one night more likely A months usage!

NeilF · 19 Dec 2019 at 13:44

BigBoy said:
A picture of the install is needed for me to determine if there are any install issues.

50kwh is far more than 6 heaters would use in one night more likely A months usage!

Well, that's what's being used each night, measured on the meter and a smart mater I've put around the mains feed.

About 6-7khw is used by an immersion heater doing his water (we know because we turned it off over one night to see what difference it would make), and then 40-50Kwh is then still being used over night, and basically the only thing is can be is the four storage heaters. (Day usage is 10kwh or so).

This site suggests a storage heater can be using 10khw of electricity in a night, so times four? - https://www.sust-it.net/storage-heater-energy-calculator.php

Last night's test was to set the four heaters down to more sensible values, and I'll get the readings later to see what difference it made. Tonight I'll also turn one completely off and then get the readings tomorrow night...

Doobedoo · 19 Dec 2019 at 14:19

What Bigboy is trying to do is determine if your meter is operating correctly, as ensuring your storage heaters are only being fed by off-peak electricity and not peak rate because of an issue with the switch gear within the meter.

It’s advisable to take up his offer which will cost you nothing.

NeilF · 19 Dec 2019 at 14:25

Doobedoo said:
What Bigboy is trying to do is determine if your meter is operating correctly, as ensuring your storage heaters are only being fed by off-peak electricity and not peak rate because of an issue with the switch gear within the meter.

It’s advisable to take up his offer which will cost you nothing.

Ahh... OK... So just a photo of the meter and wiring in/out of it?

But:-
- Rate 1 ("day") usage is low (eg: 10kwh)
- Rate 2 ("night" - economy 7?) usage is high (eg: 50kwh)
- A smart meter around the input to the meter is reading a usage value fairly close to (1)+(2). eg: within 10% or so...

Doobedoo · 19 Dec 2019 at 14:29

NeilFawcett said:
Ahh... OK... So just a photo of the meter and wiring in/out of it?

But:-
- Rate 1 ("day") usage is low (eg: 10kwh)
- Rate 2 ("night" - economy 7?) usage is high (eg: 50kwh)
- A smart meter around the input to the meter is reading a usage value fairly close to (1)+(2). eg: within 10% or so...

That does indeed indicate it’s purely the storage heaters doing what storage heaters do.

Two choices replace for more modern/effective units or decrease usage.

NeilF · 19 Dec 2019 at 18:11

Update On Usage
Right, first, last night I set all the four storage heaters down to an INPUT and OUTPUT of 4, and at bedtime three of them had their OUTPUT set to 1 (eg: off), which was then returned back upto 4 this morning (when getting up). The days prior to this they had mostly all been set to far higher values and just left like it all the time.

Today's reading (for last night) shows 40khw used. The night before (with the higher INPUT/OUTPUT settings) was 53khw.

Tonight the same is going to be repeated again (OUTPUT of 1 over night, back to 4 in the morning) and I've turned off one of the units completely. So I want to see a 20% or so drop in usage tonight accordingly in my readings tomorrow ideally!

The Units
There's three are 1700W units, and one is a 2550W unit. I've included photos below of this large one.

Photos

Orionaut · 19 Dec 2019 at 18:35

Storage heaters are fine for a house that is occupied 24/7 (Elderly people, Families with pre-school children with stay at home parent)

They are not so good for houses where all you ever do is eat breakfast/supper and sleep.

As ever it is horses for courses.

I like storage heaters for the environments that they work well for.

Cheap to install, zero maintenance costs and very reliable (Which is why landlords tend to like them)