Well, zero maintenance? It seems possible that over winter months they need day long nurse-maiding. eg: Set to (OUTPUT) 1 over night, and then adjusted all day long, until possibly they then run out on the evening, at which point (with inflated daytime electricity costs) you have to turn electric heaters on :/
Anyone here with experience of storage heaters? Need some info/advice?
- Thread starter NeilF
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He means as in there's very little that goes wrong with them that ever needs repairing or replacing etc.
I'm not sure if the 1-6 does refer to to amount of hours usage. But is typically a scale of charge and discharge.
I.e. you can't set input to 1 and then expect to set output to 6 and have it last throughout the day. On the flip-side again, you don't want input set to 6 if throughout most of the day you'll only have output set to 1/2.
If it's your first time using them, you need to experiment a little. Ideally you want the stored heat to be running out late at night - i think economy 7 usually switches over at midnight or 1am. But depending on your usage, i.e. if during the evening you're likely to max them out more, then you'll need to ensure they charge up more.
They are a bit of a PITA tbh, but when you get the hang of how they work etc, they're not too bad. When we were in a rented flat we just left the hallway and living room ones onto something like 3/4 for both input and output.
Update On Usage
Right, first, last night I set all the four storage heaters down to an INPUT and OUTPUT of 4, and at bedtime three of them had their OUTPUT set to 1 (eg: off), which was then returned back upto 4 this morning (when getting up). The days prior to this they had mostly all been set to far higher values and just left like it all the time.
Today's reading (for last night) shows 40khw used. The night before (with the higher INPUT/OUTPUT settings) was 53khw.
Tonight the same is going to be repeated again (OUTPUT of 1 over night, back to 4 in the morning) and I've turned off one of the units completely. So I want to see a 20% or so drop in usage tonight accordingly in my readings tomorrow ideally!
The Units
There's three are 1700W units, and one is a 2550W unit. I've included photos below of this large one.
Photos
Thanks for the picture, I can tell you that the electrician that opened that meter and installed the live tails needs a smack upside his head! It's not going to effect the operation of the Install but the trimming of the meter tails is dirty, naughty electrician shouldnt even be opening the meter cover.
The install looks fine, the meter is know to have timing issues as the clock is set at the factory and the do loose time over its lifetime. Whats the serial number of the meter PM it to me if you want and i can tell you its age.
Are you sure rate 2 is turning off? the number 1 or 2 should flash to show what rate is active.
MY guess is a malfunctioning heater, i.e its stuck a full wack for the entire night bumping up the usage, you are absolutely sure the immersion heater isnt on all night?thye tend to be the biggest culprits for this level of consumption.
Thanks for the help and advice! Again most appreciated.
Reminder of Usage
Over the last few days:-
- day (rate 1) usage has been around 9-13kwh per day.
- night (rate 2) usage has been around 50 odd kwh per day, with us turning all units down to INPUT 4/OUTPUT 1 over night seemingly taking it down to about 40kwh.
Immersion Heater
There are two full on mains switches near the hot water tank. One labelled for "day" and one for "night". The day one is off, the night one is switched on. One night we left the night one off, and the rate 2 (night) usage dropped down by approx 5-10kwh.
So my hope is the immersion heater, when it has power via economy 7 (night), heats the water in the tank to a certain temp and then turns off with a thermostat? Because if it's boiling the water for 6-7hrs over night that would be mad! There's hot water in the morning and towards the end of the day less.
Quite why there isn't simply an old fashioned rotary timer where you could move the "teeth" to dictate when to turn the immersion on I don't know. You'd just set it to an hour in the early morning and probably 30 mins mid/late afternoon, done? Rather than all night and no day water heating?
Testing Heaters
Tonight I've turned off one of the storage units (kitchen) completely, and I'll see with tomorrow's readings how that affects it. I can obviously repeat that with each of the four units in question, albeit one is in a bedroom and one in a lounge, where obviously I'm not keen to get the room cold for the 83yr there :/
Age Of Meter
I'll try and grab the SN tomorrow and post it here along with how turning off one of the storage heaters (the one in the kitchen) seems to affect things... I would hope it would drop it down by 20% or so?
EDIT: See image two posts down!
Thanks again for the help, it really is very appreciated
Last edited:
Soldato
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Storage heaters are (supposedly) the most efficient systems, in thermodynamic engineering terms... I'm not convinced they're financially efficient, though and my room temperatures regularly hit single digits in Winter. I have a lovely PC with fan-con temp sensors, as well as various thermometers (phone, watches and dedicated readers) to verify this!
That Pic is great, the meter was made in 2010 and certified February 2010. Metering comes under the weights and measures act, this is part of why we need to change them as most in the UK are 20 years old +. No reason your meter would be malfunctioning given its age, my next question would be about the changes to the electrical installation as that consumer unit is very new (18th Edition regulations) When was this installed?Thanks for the help and advice! Again most appreciated.
Reminder of Usage
Over the last few days:-
- day (rate 1) usage has been around 9-13kwh per day.
- night (rate 2) usage has been around 50 odd kwh per day, with us turning all units down to INPUT 4/OUTPUT 1 over night seemingly taking it down to about 40kwh.
Immersion Heater
There are two full on mains switches near the hot water tank. One labelled for "day" and one for "night". The day one is off, the night one is switched on. One night we left the night one off, and the rate 2 (night) usage dropped down by approx 5-10kwh.
So my hope is the immersion heater, when it has power via economy 7 (night), heats the water in the tank to a certain temp and then turns off with a thermostat? Because if it's boiling the water for 6-7hrs over night that would be mad! There's hot water in the morning and towards the end of the day less.
Quite why there isn't simply an old fashioned rotary timer where you could move the "teeth" to dictate when to turn the immersion on I don't know. You'd just set it to an hour in the early morning and probably 30 mins mid/late afternoon, done? Rather than all night and no day water heating?
Testing Heaters
Tonight I've turned off one of the storage units (kitchen) completely, and I'll see with tomorrow's readings how that affects it. I can obviously repeat that with each of the four units in question, albeit one is in a bedroom and one in a lounge, where obviously I'm not keen to get the room cold for the 83yr there :/
Age Of Meter
I'll try and grab the SN tomorrow and post it here along with how turning off one of the storage heaters (the one in the kitchen) seems to affect things... I would hope it would drop it down by 20% or so?
Thanks again for the help, it really is very appreciated
The Immersion should still have a timer, but its not unusual to find one without. Much older immersion heaters would use a thermostat and just heat the water to that temperature then turn off, more modern ones have timers.
If the thermostat is defective it could over run and keep heating the water beyond what is required (meaning excessive cost). The Day switch is to boost the tank using normal supply so you dont run out later in to the evening.
Well I think the immersion heater is using about 5-10kwh per night... So assuming it's say a 2000kwh immersion heater that implies it's cooking the water for about 3-4hrs a night in total... Seems a daft amount in total.
And not having a timer seems daft? Why heat the water between 1-7am when 5-7am would be more than adequate and probably achieve much the same?
Soldato
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Glad to see your making some progess. If you think the immersion is using that much and maybe being off is it not worth buyin an immersion timer.
I know screwfix have them for £15, just stick it on the night feed and do a bit more controlling?
I know screwfix have them for £15, just stick it on the night feed and do a bit more controlling?
Only problem is, the circuit in question only gets power to it at night... There's two switches for the immersion, one day one night... Each only getting power those times of days...
A timer to me makes far more sense, so rather than 6-7hrs of it coming on and off, just set it for 1-2hrs in the early morning and 30 mins in the afternoon.
Soldato
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Yeah i got that, what i meant was put a timer on the night, do what you said and wack it on by default from say 4-6 so it should have a hot tankful
If its only the odd 30 mins for the day rate thats probably easier to just stick with the switch, or is he using it every day at that time?
You could stick a switch on that one as well, was just thinking if its rarely used then dont bother its probably not worth the expense, bit if it is used daily then maybe its better to control that as well
Surely the timer would require sustained power? ie: If it's being turned off 17hrs a day (only gets power at night with economy 7) wouldn't its settings/timings risk getting lost? I'd have to look into it?
You can buy a digital timer to replace your switch which is what we did.
We set it to come on an or so before the night time rate ends and that insures we have hot enough water and are not heating up excessively. Cheap and easy to fit.
We have this one although I don't remember it being that expensive but it was 18 months ago.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Best-Price...=1576853839&sprefix=immersion+,aps,137&sr=8-8
Soldato
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I would assume the battery backup would be good enough to handle the being switched off daily in effect (ie the feed gets cut by the eco 7)
There is another way, but i cant explain the technicalities with the right terminology you would need a proper sparkie
You wire the timer to a permanent feed, and functions as a switch that allows the current to flow from the two feeds, and the one that is active will power the tank, when the timer is on.
Does that make sense?
A timer would seem to make sense. The notion of heating water from 11:30pm to 6:30am (7hrs) non-stop just seems madness! Doing it 5 to 6:15am would surely achieve the same, with less waste!
It's something I'll look into after we've got our heads around the storage heaters...
It's something I'll look into after we've got our heads around the storage heaters...
@NeilFawcett I've had a chat with one of the guys at work, (mor senior than I and been in the business 40+ years) for 4 or 5 heaters running at 6 and 6 you will achieve best results but you will burn a hell of a lot of electric, similar to what you are seeing. Based on the Tariffs we use here for E7 it would be somewhere around 8.22p per kWh so at 50kwh your looking at £4.11 per night.
You need to turn off the heaters for rooms that don't really need it, kitchens especially don't tend to 'need' heating as they will self heat (when cooking).
It's a balancing act based on your f-i-l's preference to be toasty or just ok.
Hope that helps.
You need to turn off the heaters for rooms that don't really need it, kitchens especially don't tend to 'need' heating as they will self heat (when cooking).
It's a balancing act based on your f-i-l's preference to be toasty or just ok.
Hope that helps.
Many MANY thanks again...
Update
Well, having turned the kitchen one off over last night, so leaving two 1700W units and one 2550W unit going (over night INPUT 4/OUTPUT 1) & the immersion heater of course, we got down to 36kwh of usage.
Tonight as well as turning the kitchen one off, we've also turned a hallway one off too. So that's two 1700W units now off. We'll see tomorrow how that changes things...
Immersion Heater
Having looked at the wiring there's two switches, both leading to their own immersion heater. Obviously one for the day, and one for the night. So with the night one turned on:-
1) It means the water is being heated for 7hrs over night.
2) By later afternoon, there's little/no hot water left which is obviously rubbish. You shouldn't have to manually got and turn the day switch on for 20-30mins.
But the immersion heater is another matter to deal with after all of this...
Cost
Day 20.17p
Night 11.26p
So last nights 36kwh cost £4.05...