Cancer patient set on fire during operation in Romania

[Lord-Jaffa]

I read many articles, rather than be selective. Such as:



https://fullfact.org/health/how-much-can-we-charge-people-overseas-use-nhs/

Would you rather the NHS not treat holidaymakers?

Well I was referring to the article you yourself posted, i'm just reading further into it (as article titles and opening paragraphs are often misleading and debunked further into the article themselves, yay journalism).

I'm not getting sucked into this debate though, if people think it's ok for the British taxpayer to be fleeced because other people choose to seek employment elsewhere in the world then that is their option (however absolutely LOL worthy it might be), just quoting 0.3% though is misleading and also fairly obviously not accurate (also a decade out of date).

 

[Orionaut]

Reminds me of one time i was hospital.

The old guy in the bed opposite decided to light up a ciggy in his bed right next to the huge white oxygen cylinder he needed.

In the industrial environment, Oxygen is actually considered to be pretty much the most dangerous gas.

Colourless, odour less, non-toxic and absolutely deadly!

 

[VincentHanna]

Well I was referring to the article you yourself posted, i'm just reading further into it (as article titles and opening paragraphs are often misleading and debunked further into the article themselves, yay journalism).

I'm not getting sucked into this debate though, if people think it's ok for the British taxpayer to be fleeced because other people choose to seek employment elsewhere in the world then that is their option (however absolutely LOL worthy it might be), just quoting 0.3% though is misleading and also fairly obviously not accurate (also a decade out of date).

You think these people aren't paying tax?

https://www.oxfordeconomics.com/recent-releases/8747673d-3b26-439b-9693-0e250df6dbba

THE FISCAL IMPACT OF IMMIGRATION ON THE UK
European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK.

In preparation for Brexit, the government asked its Migration Advisory Committee (MAC) to report on the economic and social impacts of EU migrants in the UK. The MAC commissioned Oxford Economics to analyse the fiscal implications of immigration using the most up-to-date data and sophisticated modelling techniques.

The resulting study, The Fiscal Impact of Immigration on the UK, represents the most comprehensive assessment to date of the net contribution that all migrants make to the UK’s public finances.

The study finds that

• The average UK-based migrant from Europe contributed approximately £2,300 more to UK public finances in 2016/17 than the average UK adult. In comparison, each UK born adult contributed £70 less than the average, and each non-European migrant contributed over £800 less than the average.
• The average European migrant arriving in the UK in 2016 will contribute £78,000 more than they take out in public services and benefits over their time spent in the UK (assuming a balanced national budget), and the average non-European migrant will make a positive net contribution of £28,000 while living here. By comparison, the average UK citizen’s net lifetime contribution in this scenario is zero.
• Taken together, this means that the migrants who arrived in 2016 will make a total net positive contribution of £26.9 billion to the UK’s public finances over the entirety of their stay. The value of this to the UK’s public finances is equivalent to putting approximately 5p on income tax rates (across all marginal rate bands) in that year.

 

[Lord-Jaffa]

What does that have to do with anything I've posted. I'm saying the opinion of others here that health tourism is absolutely fine and we should finance the healthcare needs of everyone who chooses to abuse the system, based on the premise that people choose to leave their home countries to work here instead, is a ridiculous comparison to make.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

You might not like this answer but its free.

It isn't free.
I work next to the department called Clinical Coding who work out a patients journey and then send that bill to some department in Government so we make sure we get the money for who we have treated.

 

[Nasher]

You think these people aren't paying tax?

https://www.oxfordeconomics.com/recent-releases/8747673d-3b26-439b-9693-0e250df6dbba

Most European migrants are skilled and already have jobs lined up.

 

[Tony Edwards]

It isn't free.
I work next to the department called Clinical Coding who work out a patients journey and then send that bill to some department in Government so we make sure we get the money for who we have treated.

Spoil sport.

I meant free at source and you know it.

 

[Caracus2k]

You think these people aren't paying tax?

https://www.oxfordeconomics.com/recent-releases/8747673d-3b26-439b-9693-0e250df6dbba

Its cute how easily you are fooled by such obviously flawed statistics.... I say cute because the alternative is you are deliberately being disengenious....

Lets take a look shall we....

The average UK-based migrant from Europe contributed approximately £2,300 more to UK public finances in 2016/17 than the average UK adult.

So what's misleading here then?

Well anyone with half brain should spot the careful dodge of refering to 'average adult'....

Because if they compared working age vs working age the proganda would all fall to pieces....

You see I'm going to give you an early hint here.... and point out that 'average adult' includes thoose of pensionable age (you know that group who tend to cost the state lot whilst contributing very little on average).

The EU8 coutries (including Poland - top contributer to migrants entering the UK from the EU) have only had freedom of movement into the UK from 2004 and most migrants tend to be young adults. Hence not many EU migrants have yet reached their expensive (to the state) retirement age!

Hence we square the circle of how the 'average' EU migrant can (currently) represent an annual £2,300 benefit to the Uk vs the 'average' UK born adult.

This supposed benefit is entirely predicated on the current relatively youthful demographic that is EU migrants vs Uk adult!

The average European migrant arriving in the UK in 2016 will contribute £78,000 more than they take out in public services and benefits over their time spent in the UK (assuming a balanced national budget), and the average non-European migrant will make a positive net contribution of £28,000 while living here. By comparison, the average UK citizen’s net lifetime contribution in this scenario is zero.

so what's wrong here then? Well of course the 'average' migrant be they EU or not will be far more likely to have already completed at least their childhood education before they have entered the UK and after they have gone through the relatively expensive (to the state) childhood years. Just educating a child costs the state around £73,000 so I think we can conclude that the average cost of childhood far exceeds the £78,000 for the average EU migrant cited above.


Which tends to confirm what was already known.... That the average migrant in the UK earns less in their working years (and therefore pays less tax) vs the average uk born individual....and people wonder why we have wage stagnation and productivity issues?

"Health tourism" is such a tiny tiny percentage of people that use the NHS.

Problem is we don't know the full figure because the best the goverment can offer us is a 'rough' estimate!

https://fullfact.org/health/health-tourism-whats-cost/

From this source ...

It’s difficult to put a figure on exactly how much “health tourism” costs the NHS. 0.3% reflects the upper end of the government’s rough estimates of “deliberate health tourism” and visitors “taking advantage” of the system

So it's only a figure the goverment estimates for 'deliberate health tourism/ taking advantage of the system ' I. E thoose that attend the UK for the purpose of solely/primarily obtaining health care....

I wonder if you would trust a 'rough estimate' from the UK goverment if it didn't accord with your prejudices?

Personally I don't trust goverment 'rough estimates' when it comes to immigration because they are all too often directed by ideology and wildly wrong...

(like this one where they were wrong with an actual figure twenty times the 'rough estimate')

You are far more likely to be treated by a foreign nurse or doctor within the NHS than have a foreign patient come over specifcally for healthcare.

And that nurse or doctor will be being paid a salary via the UK taxpayer. The evidence suggests however that the the NHS isn't particularly effective at recouping the cost of treating EU nationals....

The UK paid out £674 million in health costs to European countries, but received only £49 million in return.

There are currently more than double the amount of EU nationals living in the UK then vice versa (although it would only be fair to note the demographic makeups of the two groups are different)

 

[Werewolf]

Its cute how easily you are fooled by such obviously flawed statistics.... I say cute because the alternative is you are deliberately being disengenious....




There are currently more than double the amount of EU nationals living in the UK then vice versa (although it would only be fair to note the demographic makeups of the two groups are different)

If they're living in the UK, presumably they (or their family) are working in the UK which from memory means they'll be paying UK taxes...

 

[moon man]

Worked with a lot of eastern Europeans and they tended to work all the hours possible to make a better life for themselves back home ( some couples would do 12 times 12 hours shifts per week) ,have no issues with them using the nhs especially for their kids ,i would in the same position although one of the guys was always showing me pics of his Bentley he drove back home .

But the company i worked for couldn't fill the vacancy's they had with brits so they would organise accommodation and bus them in and out every day

 

[rxodium]

What in the absolute blue blazing french toast **** has the last nearly 30 ******* posts got to do with patients catching fire in hospitals.... I swear you people could have a thread about why is the sky blue and it would devolve into an argument about ******* immigrants.

 

[moon man]

that is why we all love GD i guess

 

[Caracus2k]

What in the absolute blue blazing french toast **** has the last nearly 30 ******* posts got to do with patients catching fire in hospitals.... I swear you people could have a thread about why is the sky blue and it would devolve into an argument about ******* immigrants.

You might want to take your issue up with the OP...

Because I suggest the first post was quite clearly intended to ellicit a particular line of response.

Or do you really think that we would have a discussion on GD strictly contained to the circumstances of a medical mistake on the other side of Europe?

 

[rxodium]

Because I suggest the first post was quite clearly intended to ellicit a particular line of response.

You can suggest all you want. His post was bitching about the condition of Romanian hospitals. My response to him was that patients catching fire is more common than people think. It was then the rest of them that went off on the inevitable immigrant tangent that GD is renowned for on the internet.

 

[Caracus2k]

You can suggest all you want. His post was bitching about the condition of Romanian hospitals. My response to him was that patients catching fire is more common than people think. It was then the rest of them that went off on the inevitable immigrant tangent that GD is renowned for on the internet.

So you agree that the result if not intended was entirely anticipated by the op rather confirming my point?

If you find this forum or even this sub forum so toxic others are available you know that may better suit your sensibilities.....

Unless of course you are just here to troll... You wouldn't be doing that now would you?

Mein Kampf. I was informed it was required reading for this forum and there'd be a quiz.

 

[rxodium]

So you agree that the result if not intended was entirely anticipated by the op rather confirming my point?

No. I'm not agreeing. Nor is your point confirmed because your point had nothing to do with the OPs post, which you've already been told, it was about the state of Romanian hospitals and a patient catching fire. You only decided to stick your oar in when the conversation had quite clearly settled on immigrants which says much more about you than it does the OP.

If you find this forum or even this sub forum so toxic others are available you know that may better suit your sensibilities.....

Give over you pompous wind bag. Funny that you're the one whinging so much when it's pointed out that most threads devolve into immigrant bashing when you're the one with the with the most long winded post about dem dirty immigrants in this thread. I'm sure if we went through your post history we'd find plenty of similar posts.

Unless of course you are just here to troll... You wouldn't be doing that now would you?

It's absolutely not a troll. OCUK and their forums have a very long history on the internet for harbouring racist opinions. You're perfectly capable of Googling it.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

No but it creates shortages in countries that still need care as much as anyone. The UK pay more money so if they are hoping to provide their families with a good life (like we all do) then of course they follow the money.

Their "will" would be to probably work in their home country if it had a decent infrastructure and pay.

I've used the NHS enough to know that foreign professionals were vital and whining about the NHS being used by foreign people to have a baby safely is just sad.

Brain drain is a huge problem for developing countries.

 

[Caracus2k]

No. I'm not agreeing.

So you can't remain internally consistent, in one thread in the course of under an hour?

You'll do well here.....

Just in case any one's being a bit dense let me remind you of what was said...

on the inevitable immigrant tangent that GD is renowned for on the internet.

So you agree that the result if not intended was entirely anticipated by the op rather confirming my point?

Nor is your point confirmed because your point had nothing to do with the OPs post, which you've already been told, it was about the state of Romanian hospitals and a patient catching fire. You only decided to stick your oar in when the conversation had quite clearly settled on immigrants which says much more about you than it does the OP.

Oh you've got me there.... I waded in to challenge the usual nonsense that routinely gets posted here once the thread had already been dragged of topic by providing figures and a reasoned argument.... Totally unlike a scholar of righteous and not at all attention seeking forum posting like your good self who would never stoop to make an edgy and largely irrelevant post in a thread which was either intended or at least could be anticipated to potentially drag a thread of topic and into the very 'racist' talk you are so desperate to claim is so pervasive here right?

Because you wouldn't do that right?

Mein Kampf. I was informed it was required reading for this forum and there'd be a quiz.

To stick with the medical theme i think the most apt saying would be "physician heal thyself"

Maybe consider that before you try to completely unnecessarily derail a thread about favorite books into a chat about Hitler and then start clutching pearls when someone else challenges potentially misleading assertions in an already derailled thread?

Give over you pompous wind bag. Funny that you're the one whinging so much when it's pointed out that most threads devolve into immigrant bashing

This poster seriously wants to complain about threads being derailled into racist diatribes when they are trying to be edgy by bringing up Mein Kamf in another recent post in a rather transparent attempt to try and get a reaction....

when you're the one with the with the most long winded post about dem dirty immigrants in this thread. I'm sure if we went through your post history we'd find plenty of similar posts.

I think you are starting to project now..... I don't know where you got 'dirty immigrants' from.

Its perfectly possible to be opposed to the arguments made for continued later scale
, almost totally uncontrolled at the point of access immigration from the EU and not have a problem with the people legally making use of the provisioms themselves.

It's absolutely not a troll. OCUK and their forums have a very long history on the internet for harbouring racist opinions. You're perfectly capable of Googling it.

Whatever you say.. Just thought you'd come here and try and stir the pot a bit hey?

Did you get the reaction you wanted?

 

[rxodium]

So you can't remain internally consistent in one thread in the course of under an hour?

You'll do well here.....

At least I don't fit into the racist opinion group.

Oh you've got me there.... I waded in to challenge usual nonsense that routinely gets posted here once the thread had already been dragged of topic by providing figures and a reasoned argument....

You have a habit of wading in and sticking your oar in a lot. You come across as a pseudo intellectual know nothing know it all who loves the sound of his own voice.

Totally unlike a scholar of righteous and not at all attention seeking forum posting like your good self

That's rich coming from you.

To stick with the medical theme i think the most apt saying would be "physician heal thyself"

Maybe consider that before you try to completely unnecessarily derail a thread about favorite books into a chat about Hitler and then start clutching pearls when someone else challenges potentially misleading assertions in an already derailled thread.

Maybe consider that before you come into a thread sticking your oar in when it's completely off topic, you try and get it back on topic about patients catching fire instead of doing absolute sweet **** all but adding to the problem of the thread being off topic.

This poster seriously wants to complain about threads being derailled into racist diatribes when their trying to be edgy by bringing up mein kamf in another recent post in a rather transparent attenpt to try and get a reaction....

If it wasn't obvious now, you clearly don't have a sense of humour, and are incapable of taking a snarky remark. You're probably insufferable at parties and start sentences with "ackchualy...."

I think you are starting to project now..... I don't know where you got 'dirty immigrants' from

Its perfectly possible to be opposed to the arguments made for continued later scal, almost totally uncontrolled at the point of access immigration from the EU and not have a problem with the people legally making use of the provisioms themselves.

Zzzzzzzzzzz has **** all to do with the thread.

Whatever you say.. Just thought you'd come here and try and stir the pot a bit hey?

Did you get the reaction you wanted?

I didn't have to stir the pot. My comment, the second in the thread is the only ******* comment that's on topic. My second comment in the thread is pointing that out. Your reply to that was to bitch about it. Get ******* over yourself.

 

[ethan]

What in the absolute blue blazing french toast **** has the last nearly 30 ******* posts got to do with patients catching fire in hospitals.... I swear you people could have a thread about why is the sky blue and it would devolve into an argument about ******* immigrants.

This is why I only half looked at it until somebody made a comment that was relevant to the initial post. I believe the procedure was illegal and is to be investigated. Terrible situation.