Spec me a Hybrid.

[Jonnycoupe]

Diesel versus hybrid/electrification?! Have you seen what’s happened to used ZOE and Leaf prices now whilst pre EU6 diesels are at risk with the emerging ZEV zone plans.

 

[Usher]

this is article I had read https://www.popularmechanics.com/ca...7039/tesla-battery-emissions-study-fake-news/
presumably ev batteries can be re-cycled which they don't seem to consider.

stop/start - I don't have it, but, as a frequent cyclist, often see people especially at roundabouts, (firstly stopping because they can't judge the traffic ) emerging dangerously because of the 1s pause as the engine restarts.



the prius has been around a while, but despite that, the example I gave still sees similar 50p running cost to a yaris (ok that's a bit smaller)

I don't experience any pausing when driving off, the Prius does it seamlessly at any speed.

The actual running cost of a Prius and a Yaris being more or less the same at 50p a mile is an unfair comparison really, it takes into account the initial cost of a Prius with with all the bells & whistles.

But actual running costs are way lower regarding fuel, my current Prius is road tax exempt also

 

[b0rn2sk8]

EU6 and soon EU7 diesels are very clean.

No. They are cleaner compared to a EU4 diesel but they still horrendous for local air quality. No vehicle is ‘clean’, they all have an impact even BEVs.

 

[Nasher]

I don't experience any pausing when driving off, the Prius does it seamlessly at any speed.

The actual running cost of a Prius and a Yaris being more or less the same at 50p a mile is an unfair comparison really, it takes into account the initial cost of a Prius with with all the bells & whistles.

But actual running costs are way lower regarding fuel, my current Prius is road tax exempt also

For some reason the CH-R hybrid has that pause as well. The Prius doesn't seem to get it even though it's the same system.

 

[Deleted member 87287]

.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Neither did I...

But I think most people’s definition of ‘clean air’ doesn’t include exhaust fumes of any kind. The air in city centres is getting better but it’s still frankly rank compared to out in the countryside.

The reason I say BEVs have an impact is because they still have all the particulates that come of the tyres and brakes which impact air quality.

 

[jpaul]

For some reason the CH-R hybrid has that pause as well. The Prius doesn't seem to get it even though it's the same system.

I had been referring to stop/start pause from the diesel post ... I wouldn't have expected a hybrid to pause. ..
how does it know your intention pulling away ?, in town maybe the electric motor would suffice, but especially on faster roads, I would not want an indeterminant pause whilst it made its mind up, even slotting into a gap on 30mph town traffic might be unpredictable, you need to know what power you will get, to avoid too fast, or too slow.

edit: ->

Have you seen what’s happened to used ZOE and Leaf prices now whilst pre EU6 diesels

yes its a good point about saving on congestion charges, until next year, anyway for hybrids in london
https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/fl...-will-face-london-congestion-charge-from-2021

 

[Usher]

I. I wouldn't have expected a hybrid to pause. ..
how does it know your intention pulling away ?, in town maybe the electric motor would suffice, but especially on faster roads, I would not want an indeterminant pause whilst it made its mind up, even slotting into a gap on 30mph town traffic might be unpredictable, you need to know what power you will get, to avoid too fast, or too slow.

Maybe some makes of hybrids do pause before accelerating; mine certainly does not, I went into detail as to how my car behaves acceleration wise, look back at my post 48

 

[Vita]

Diesel versus hybrid/electrification?! Have you seen what’s happened to used ZOE and Leaf prices now whilst pre EU6 diesels are at risk with the emerging ZEV zone plans.

Guessing they've shot up?

 

[jpaul]

inconclusive used ev/hybrid value article https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...Zoe-tops-used-electric-cars-rising-value.html

Much of the price rises could be down to their limited availability.

While there are a few thousand Renault Zoes and Nissan eNV200s registered on UK roads, there are just 422 Peugeot i0ns and 225 Citroen C-Zeros, according to Howmanyleft.co.uk.

Just nine used iOns are currently listed on Auto Trader for sale and there are only two C-Zeros

[

Maybe some makes of hybrids do pause before accelerating

you had said .. Nasher had said, his did, which was why I commented.

50-70 out of town, overtake acceleration is where I would look on a test drive, inner city with average speeds like Cambridge, most cars are up to it.
]

 

[Psycho Sonny]

The question is though,
if total hybrid ownership cost is not significantly/less than equiavlent petrols, because the higher depreciation offsets the fuel saving, then the choice becomes an environmental one ? maybe - albeit for a model3 (ok full ev) the addtional battery environmental cost represents driving a 2L car, A6 was the xample they gave, for 30K miles.

You are looking at brand new cars are you not?

If you bought a hybrid 2-3 years ago second hand. It commands pretty much the same money today due to increase in demand.

I know the previous car the wife had lost about £6k in value over 4 years and was significantly cheaper. So far this has lost £2k in over 2 years yet it cost more to buy.

I reckon we bought just at the right time though. Demand for hybrid is going up so prices are better than ice cars on resale.

If you look at diesels now second hand. You can get a hybrid which was the same price as the diesel new but with half the mileage for the same price.

High mileage modern diesels will be less reliable than a low mileage hybrid made by the likes of Toyota and lexus.

If you compare running costs. I know in the wife's old car which didn't have half of what comes in the lexus. It also cost £40 to fill and did 400 miles or 450-500 on long distance.

The lexus again only took 33 litres and that is with me brimming it 3-4 times after the pump went off. So a £40 fill up and will do around 400 miles too.

It's much cleaner and much better for the environment. I like the car that much I will likely get the wife another in 2 years time when this is traded in. She usually keeps a car for 4 years.

I would like to try the prius for the additional mpg gain. But it lacks all the creature comforts of the ct200h.

Ill need to compare the 2 thoroughly as well as the Auris and see what would be best. However I think it's worth the extra to have all the toys the lexus has in it. I showed a mate last week and he was amazed at how kitted out it was as standard. I have the upgraded sound system with the subwoofer in the boot. If you value things like that then you can appreciate the difference in quality.

If all you care about is cost then sure get an Auris or prius.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

EU6 and soon EU7 diesels are very clean. The proven damage you speak of was only the revelation that VAG were cheating the tests on their EU5 and 6 diesels. But now people and governments tar all diesels with the same brush.

I am not sure most people understand the gravity of what VAG did with their emissions cheating. To date, no other manufacturer has been found guilty of the same, and they have all been investigated at some level. A lot of people say "they're all at it" but that simply isn't true.

When my neighbor starts up his bmw diesel I can taste it from my driveway and I live in a detached home. That's just from idling and start up.

It makes me feel sick and cough.

I've never felt the same when I start my petrol or the wife's hybrid.

It's even worse when he drives off. The amount of crap coming out the back makes me rush indoors. As I don't want to breathing it in.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

this is article I had read https://www.popularmechanics.com/ca...7039/tesla-battery-emissions-study-fake-news/
presumably ev batteries can be re-cycled which they don't seem to consider.

stop/start - I don't have it, but, as a frequent cyclist, often see people especially at roundabouts, (firstly stopping because they can't judge the traffic ) emerging dangerously because of the 1s pause as the engine restarts.


you think ? like with more complex car electronics + turbos/dpf's, a 2nd hand hybrid post warranty seems risky, versus a NA petrol.
the prius has been around a while, but despite that, the example I gave still sees similar 50p running cost to a yaris (ok that's a bit smaller)

You are talking about stopping unnecessarily because they can't judge traffic.

Yet they emerge dangerously because of the engine? And not because they can't judge traffic?

I've had people pull out on me at an upcoming join on a roundabout clearly not seeing me and then travelling along at less than 10mph so I have to brake rapidly.

I never thought it was stop start but poor drivers. Which showed when the same person was in the wrong lane further up and decided to floor it and cut across rather than wait for someone to let them in. Meaning again I had to slam the brakes when they flew across into the lane I was in.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

inconclusive used ev/hybrid value article https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...Zoe-tops-used-electric-cars-rising-value.html




[

you had said .. Nasher had said, his did, which was why I commented.

50-70 out of town, overtake acceleration is where I would look on a test drive, inner city with average speeds like Cambridge, most cars are up to it.
]

I've never had any pause in power and have no idea what you are talking about.

Also in terms of power the car is very lively in sports mode.

Eco mode makes the accelerator very slow. As in if you press it slightly to half way you get the basic amount of power. Past half way it then starts to pick up. That's because it is forcing you to use the least amount of power possible unless you floor it then it gives you what you would expect.

In sport mode you get 100% even if you tap the pedal and will pin you back even if you apply a small amount of pressure. I will leave most cars standing at traffic lights in sport mode. I'm not talking about racing or against ferraris but in normal day to day driving when there is someone next to me in a Renault I will have made a healthy 30 yard lead before they have gotten up to speed.

There is no pause in power at all. Maybe you are referring to people in Eco mode who have no idea how the accelerator adjusts in that mode and they aren't putting the pedal down to past half way.

Driving a hybrid actually takes re training. You can't drive it like a normal car.

It's why you floor it to get up to speed. Then take your foot off completely then apply lightly to get the max use out of them. That light pedal pressure is when it uses battery only. You can't use that to join roundabouts from a starting stop. Not unless it's completely clear and you fancy using only 30bhp to move the car.

Can you imagine what a 5 door hatch with 30bhp would feel like? Well you wouldn't make it up most hills.

People are using hybrids wrong in your scenario so again it's poor driving rather than a fault of the car. They should be using standard mode if they don't know how Eco mode works.

Standard is like a normal car. Sport makes it feel like a hot hatch but with instant initial acceleration.

 

[Joe T]

The reason I say BEVs have an impact is because they still have all the particulates that come of the tyres and brakes which impact air quality.

Certainly not all - the brake dust from BEVs (or anything with brake regen) is much much reduced over a pure ICE.

 

[[TW]Fox]

When my neighbor starts up his bmw diesel I can taste it from my driveway and I live in a detached home. That's just from idling and start up.

It makes me feel sick and cough.

I've never felt the same when I start my petrol or the wife's hybrid.

It's even worse when he drives off. The amount of crap coming out the back makes me rush indoors. As I don't want to breathing it in.

He must have a very old one. Who knew that old cars kick crap out the back?

 

[jpaul]

I've never had any pause in power and have no idea what you are talking about.

Nasher had made the comment, about his hybrid

But stop/start on ICE cars, which is how the discussion started, is problematic pulling ot on junctions .... I spend maybe 15minutes a week watching it,
halfway point on regular run, people see a gap and have a false start, because they didn't accomodate the re-start timed in their brains, or moreover ensure stop/start was not operating at that moment. ... gooid to hear mostr hybrids don't have an issue.



with increased supply of evs / hybrids this year market should re-balance for 2nd hand values ... a shiny new id3 on pcp, or a 2nd hand xxxxxxxx

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Certainly not all - the brake dust from BEVs (or anything with brake regen) is much much reduced over a pure ICE.

I didn’t say they had the same impact, I said they have an impact. They still use brakes in the city where particulates have the most impact. Very few people actually lift and coast in busy cities (e.g. London) where it makes most sense to do so.

Tyre wear is generally also increased in a BEV due to it being a heavier vehicle, instant torque and generally more power available to the driver.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

He must have a very old one. Who knew that old cars kick crap out the back?

What do you class as very old?

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Nasher had made the comment, about his hybrid

But stop/start on ICE cars, which is how the discussion started, is problematic pulling ot on junctions .... I spend maybe 15minutes a week watching it,
halfway point on regular run, people see a gap and have a false start, because they didn't accomodate the re-start timed in their brains, or moreover ensure stop/start was not operating at that moment. ... gooid to hear mostr hybrids don't have an issue.



with increased supply of evs / hybrids this year market should re-balance for 2nd hand values ... a shiny new id3 on pcp, or a 2nd hand xxxxxxxx

Stop start isn't an issue in a hybrid because it will use the battery initially and when it realises you are using power to accelerate the engine kicks in as well.

It's not as of you have zero power completely. Also of all the stop start cars I have driven I've never had an issue with them either. The engine kicks in as soon as you press the pedal.

Maybe it's people letting go of the accelerator as the engine kicks in because they aren't used to one and the shudder of the engine starting startles them?