Donald Trump

tang0 · 23 Feb 2020 at 00:33

Jono8 said:
You have just drawn your own spurious conclusions from that.

We seem to have strayed somewhat though. My question was the motive for spying on Page after he had left the campaign .

To gather intel/dirt on Trump campaign

Why did they entrap/frame Flynn?
Why did they send in foreign spies like Halper, Downer, Misfud to influence members of Trump's campaign to set up meetings with Russians
Why did the setup the Trump tower meeting withe Vesylynetskya, the person that worked with Glenn Simpson. Why did Lynch rush through her VISA as a matter of emergency?
Why did they send in Downer to spy on Papadopoulos in a London bar?
Why did Misfud try to bribe PapaD with a $10,000 bribe, then had the FBI pounce on him at the airport because they thought he had the 10k on him?

All part of a massive highly illegal scheme started by Obama to weaponize his intel agencies to prevent Trump for becoming President/exposing their corruption

Colonel_Klinck said:
Really. Care to show us the evidence for all those claims?

Main points from Horowitz' report:

Omitted information the FBI had obtained from another U.S. government agency detailing its prior relationship with Page, including that Page had been approved as an “operational contact” for the other agency from 2008 to 2013, and that Page had provided information to the other agency concerning his prior contacts with certain Russian intelligence officers, one of which overlapped with facts asserted in the FISA application;
Included a source characterization statement asserting that Steele’s prior reporting had been “corroborated and used in criminal proceedings,” which overstated the significance of Steele’s past reporting and was not approved by Steele’s handling agent, as required by the Woods Procedures;
Omitted information relevant to the reliability of Person 1, a key Steele sub-source (who was attributed with providing the information in Report 95 and some of the information in Reports 80 and 102 relied upon in the application), namely that (1) Steele himself told members of the Crossfire Hurricane team that Person 1 was a “boaster” and an “egoist” and “may engage in some embellishment” and (2) INFORMATION REDACTED
Asserted that the FBI had assessed that Steele did not directly provide to the press information in the September 23 Yahoo News article based on the premise that Steele had told the FBI that he only shared his election-related research with the FBI and Fusion GPS, his client; this premise was incorrect and contradicted by documentation in the Woods File- Steele had told the FBI that he also gave his information to the State Department;
Omitted Papadopoulos’s consensually monitored statements to an FBI CHS in September 2016 denying that anyone associated with the Trump campaign was collaborating with Russia or with outside groups like Wikileaks in the release of emails;
Omitted Page’s consensually monitored statements to an FBI CHS in August 2016 that Page had “literally never met” or “said one word to” Paul Manafort and that Manafort had not responded to any of Page’s emails; if true, those statements were in tension with claims in Report 95 that Page was participating in a conspiracy with Russia by acting as an intermediary for Manafort on behalf of the Trump campaign; and
Included Page’s consensually monitored statements to an FBI CHS in October 2016 that the FBI believed supported its theory that Page was an agent of Russia but omitted other statements Page made that were inconsistent with its theory, including denying having met with Sechin and Divyekin, or even knowing who Divyekin was; if true, those statements contradicted the claims in Report 94 that Page had met secretly with Sechin and Divyekin about future cooperation with Russia and shared derogatory information about candidate Clinton.
Omitted the fact that Steele’s Primary Sub-source, who the FBI found credible, had made statements in January 2017 raising significant questions about the reliability of allegations included in the FISA applications, including, for example, that he/she had no discussion with Person 1 concerning WikiLeaks and there was “nothing bad” about the communications between the Kremlin and the Trump team, and that he/she did not report to Steele in July 2016 that Page had met with Sechin;
Omitted Page’s prior relationship with another U.S. government agency, despite being reminded by the other agency in June 2017, prior to the filing of the final renewal application, about Page’s past status with that other agency; instead of including this information in the final renewal application, the OGC Attorney altered an email from the other agency so that the email stated that Page was “not a source” for the other agency, which the FBI affiant relied upon in signing the final renewal application;
Omitted information from persons who previously had professional contacts with Steele or had direct knowledge of his work-related performance, including statements that Steele had no history of reporting in bad faith but “[d]emonstrates lack of self-awareness, poor judgment,” “pursued people with political risk but no intelligence value,” “didn’t always exercise great judgment,” and it was “not clear what he would have done to validate” his reporting;
Omitted information obtained from Ohr about Steele and his election reporting, including that (1) Steele’s reporting was going to Clinton’s presidential campaign and others, (2) Simpson was paying Steele to discuss his reporting with the media, and (3) Steele was “desperate that Donald Trump not get elected and was passionate about him not being the U.S. President”;
Failed to update the description of Steele after information became known to the Crossfire Hurricane team, from Ohr and others, that provided greater clarity on the political origins and connections of Steele’s reporting, including that Simpson was hired by someone associated with the Democratic Party and/or the DNC;
Failed to correct the assertion in the first FISA application that the FBI did not believe that Steele directly provided information to the reporter who wrote the September 23 Yahoo News article, even though there was no information in the Woods File to support this claim and even after certain Crossfire Hurricane officials learned in 2017, before the third renewal application, of an admission that Steele made in a court filing about his interactions with the news media in the late summer and early fall of 2016;
Omitted the finding from a FBI source validation report that Steele was suitable for continued operation but that his past contributions to the FBI’s criminal program had been ” minimally corroborated,” and instead continued to assert in the source characterization statement that Steele’s prior reporting had been “corroborated and used in criminal proceedings”;
Omitted Papadopoulos’s statements to an FBI CHS in late October 2016 denying that the Trump campaign was involved in the circumstances of the DNC email hack;
Omitted Joseph Mifsud’s denials to the FBI that he supplied Papadopoulos with the information Papadopoulos shared with the FFG (suggesting that the campaign received an offer or suggestion of assistance from Russia); and
Omitted information indicating that Page played no role in the Republican platform change on Russia’s annexation of Ukraine as alleged in the Report 95, which was inconsistent with a factual assertion relied upon to support probable cause in all four FISA applications.

Nunes: "It’s clear that top officials used unverified information in a court document to fuel a counter-intelligence investigation during an American political campaign"

Horowitz uncovered the evidence which proved that

Schiff memo: "DOJ met the rigor, transparency, and evidentiary basis needed to meet FISA's probable cause requirement." CLEARLY NOT

Jono8 · 23 Feb 2020 at 00:46

tang0 said:
To gather intel/dirt on Trump campaign

Why did they entrap/frame Flynn?
Why did they send in foreign spies like Halper, Downer, Misfud to influence members of Trump's campaign to set up meetings with Russians
Why did the setup the Trump tower meeting withe Vesylynetskya, the person that worked with Glenn Simpson. Why did Lynch rush through her VISA as a matter of emergency?
Why did they send in Downer to spy on Papadopoulos in a London bar?
Why did Misfud try to bribe PapaD with a $10,000 bribe, then had the FBI pounce on him at the airport because they thought he had the 10k on him?

All part of a massive highly illegal scheme started by Obama to weaponize his intel agencies to prevent Trump for becoming President/exposing their corruption

Main points from Horowitz' report:

Omitted information the FBI had obtained from another U.S. government agency detailing its prior relationship with Page, including that Page had been approved as an “operational contact” for the other agency from 2008 to 2013, and that Page had provided information to the other agency concerning his prior contacts with certain Russian intelligence officers, one of which overlapped with facts asserted in the FISA application;

Included a source characterization statement asserting that Steele’s prior reporting had been “corroborated and used in criminal proceedings,” which overstated the significance of Steele’s past reporting and was not approved by Steele’s handling agent, as required by the Woods Procedures;

Omitted information relevant to the reliability of Person 1, a key Steele sub-source (who was attributed with providing the information in Report 95 and some of the information in Reports 80 and 102 relied upon in the application), namely that (1) Steele himself told members of the Crossfire Hurricane team that Person 1 was a “boaster” and an “egoist” and “may engage in some embellishment” and (2) INFORMATION REDACTED

Asserted that the FBI had assessed that Steele did not directly provide to the press information in the September 23 Yahoo News article based on the premise that Steele had told the FBI that he only shared his election-related research with the FBI and Fusion GPS, his client; this premise was incorrect and contradicted by documentation in the Woods File- Steele had told the FBI that he also gave his information to the State Department;

Omitted Papadopoulos’s consensually monitored statements to an FBI CHS in September 2016 denying that anyone associated with the Trump campaign was collaborating with Russia or with outside groups like Wikileaks in the release of emails;

Omitted Page’s consensually monitored statements to an FBI CHS in August 2016 that Page had “literally never met” or “said one word to” Paul Manafort and that Manafort had not responded to any of Page’s emails; if true, those statements were in tension with claims in Report 95 that Page was participating in a conspiracy with Russia by acting as an intermediary for Manafort on behalf of the Trump campaign; and

Included Page’s consensually monitored statements to an FBI CHS in October 2016 that the FBI believed supported its theory that Page was an agent of Russia but omitted other statements Page made that were inconsistent with its theory, including denying having met with Sechin and Divyekin, or even knowing who Divyekin was; if true, those statements contradicted the claims in Report 94 that Page had met secretly with Sechin and Divyekin about future cooperation with Russia and shared derogatory information about candidate Clinton.

Omitted the fact that Steele’s Primary Sub-source, who the FBI found credible, had made statements in January 2017 raising significant questions about the reliability of allegations included in the FISA applications, including, for example, that he/she had no discussion with Person 1 concerning WikiLeaks and there was “nothing bad” about the communications between the Kremlin and the Trump team, and that he/she did not report to Steele in July 2016 that Page had met with Sechin;

Omitted Page’s prior relationship with another U.S. government agency, despite being reminded by the other agency in June 2017, prior to the filing of the final renewal application, about Page’s past status with that other agency; instead of including this information in the final renewal application, the OGC Attorney altered an email from the other agency so that the email stated that Page was “not a source” for the other agency, which the FBI affiant relied upon in signing the final renewal application;

Omitted information from persons who previously had professional contacts with Steele or had direct knowledge of his work-related performance, including statements that Steele had no history of reporting in bad faith but “[d]emonstrates lack of self-awareness, poor judgment,” “pursued people with political risk but no intelligence value,” “didn’t always exercise great judgment,” and it was “not clear what he would have done to validate” his reporting;

Omitted information obtained from Ohr about Steele and his election reporting, including that (1) Steele’s reporting was going to Clinton’s presidential campaign and others, (2) Simpson was paying Steele to discuss his reporting with the media, and (3) Steele was “desperate that Donald Trump not get elected and was passionate about him not being the U.S. President”;

Failed to update the description of Steele after information became known to the Crossfire Hurricane team, from Ohr and others, that provided greater clarity on the political origins and connections of Steele’s reporting, including that Simpson was hired by someone associated with the Democratic Party and/or the DNC;

Failed to correct the assertion in the first FISA application that the FBI did not believe that Steele directly provided information to the reporter who wrote the September 23 Yahoo News article, even though there was no information in the Woods File to support this claim and even after certain Crossfire Hurricane officials learned in 2017, before the third renewal application, of an admission that Steele made in a court filing about his interactions with the news media in the late summer and early fall of 2016;

Omitted the finding from a FBI source validation report that Steele was suitable for continued operation but that his past contributions to the FBI’s criminal program had been ” minimally corroborated,” and instead continued to assert in the source characterization statement that Steele’s prior reporting had been “corroborated and used in criminal proceedings”;

Omitted Papadopoulos’s statements to an FBI CHS in late October 2016 denying that the Trump campaign was involved in the circumstances of the DNC email hack;

Omitted Joseph Mifsud’s denials to the FBI that he supplied Papadopoulos with the information Papadopoulos shared with the FFG (suggesting that the campaign received an offer or suggestion of assistance from Russia); and

Omitted information indicating that Page played no role in the Republican platform change on Russia’s annexation of Ukraine as alleged in the Report 95, which was inconsistent with a factual assertion relied upon to support probable cause in all four FISA applications.

Nunes: "It’s clear that top officials used unverified information in a court document to fuel a counter-intelligence investigation during an American political campaign"

Horowitz uncovered the evidence which proved that

Schiff memo: "DOJ met the rigor, transparency, and evidentiary basis needed to meet FISA's probable cause requirement." CLEARLY NOT

None of that proves that any of it was to do with political bias.

The whole stupid conspiracy makes zero sense.

Do you think the FBI was conspiring to stop Trump getting elected?

tang0 · 23 Feb 2020 at 01:00

Wow, nothing goes in does it. You talk like I'm this lone nutter on a UK pc forum coming out with this stuff... I'm literally echoing what has taken place, what Barr/Nunes and everyone that knows what went on has said, and what Durham is criminally investigating...

Do you think it's at all suspicious that Alex Downer, who funnelled money to the Clinton foundation and Australian politician happened to meet with Papadopulos at a bar gets his phone camera out in front of him then starts trying to get him interested in material that could be damaging to Clinton?

Joseph Mifsud, a Maltese professor happens to bump in to Papadopoulos and claimed to have been in contact with Russian government officials who said they had “dirt” on Clinton in the form of “thousands” of her emails. If Mifsud was a Russian asset why wasn't he arrested? Btw he was given phones to use, Durham now has them, he has supposedly told all in a deposition.

Another coincidence, the same day Papa D meets Joseph Mifsud, Peter Strzok texts Lisa Page about his overseas contact: “his guy talking now.” ALSO Strzok’s boss, Priestrap, was in London the day before Downer begins to try and set him up.

Another time when he "met" Azra Turk being "very flirty" and was trying to "seduce" him in an effort to "make me slip up and say something that they knew I had no info on."

After everything that went on and what we know so far, do you REALLY think that no one was out to sabotage Trump's campaign and everything was 100% lawful?

Jono8 said:
Do you think the FBI was conspiring to stop Trump getting elected?

What do you think? CIA/Brennan started it, and the top brass of the FBI were involved of course, you know the "insurance policy in case you die before you're 40" thing? People down the chain of the FBI may have not been aware, as they thought the information they were getting provided was accurate but Comey, McCabe, Priestap, Strozk, Page, Clinesmith and more absolutely were part of the plan to bring Trump down

Jono8 · 23 Feb 2020 at 01:23

tang0 said:
What do you think? CIA/Brennan started it, and the top brass of the FBI were involved of course, you know the "insurance policy in case you die before you're 40" thing? People down the chain of the FBI may have not been aware, as they thought the information they were getting provided was accurate but Comey, McCabe, Priestap, Strozk, Page, Clinesmith and more absolutely were part of the plan to bring Trump down

....but instead of announcing they were investigating Trump over Russia, they reopened the investigation into Clinton and publically announced it very soon before the election....

Good plan FBI!

Your conspiracy theory is ridiculous and makes no sense.

Trusty · 23 Feb 2020 at 01:32

Jono8 said:
....but instead of announcing they were investigating Trump over Russia, they reopened the investigation into Clinton and publically announced it very soon before the election....

Good plan FBI!

Your conspiracy theory is ridiculous and makes no sense.

How could the FBI not open an investigation, considering what had happened in the months prior, the position became untenable. They had to announce it.

I wouldn't be calling people conspiracy theorists, considering the Russia narrative that Trump was a Russian asset everyone in the Trump thread were claiming, that actually did turn out to be a conspiracy theory which you were all caught up in.

Saying its a conspiracy has become the new 'racist' card. People pull it out when they hear stuff that contradicts their own narrative.

Durham wouldn't in the process of a broad investigation if he didn't think it was worth looking at

Jono8 · 23 Feb 2020 at 08:19

Trusty said:
How could the FBI not open an investigation, considering what had happened in the months prior, the position became untenable. They had to announce it.

I wouldn't be calling people conspiracy theorists, considering the Russia narrative that Trump was a Russian asset everyone in the Trump thread were claiming, that actually did turn out to be a conspiracy theory which you were all caught up in.

Saying its a conspiracy has become the new 'racist' card. People pull it out when they hear stuff that contradicts their own narrative.

Durham wouldn't in the process of a broad investigation if he didn't think it was worth looking at

It is a conspiracy. It doesn't contradict any "narrative". There is simply no evidence that the FBI investigated the Trump campaign purely out of political bias. The IG report concluded that also.

Just because Trump and his sycophants say something, that doesn't make it true.

The FBI likely investigated the Trump campaign because they genuinely thought something may have been going on with regard to Russia (which is entirely understandable after everything that went on).

If they are supposed to be so biased and "deep state" , and they didnt want Trump elected, why on earth did they not announce the Trump investigation just before the election instead of Hilary's? That makes zero sense and you know it. To pass it off as "oh well they had to" is just laughable.

What is even more laughable is that the "they" in all of this are Republicans" (Comey, Rosenstein, Mueller etc)!

VincentHanna · 23 Feb 2020 at 08:54

He's just tell you they were all "Never Trump" Republicans

deuse · 23 Feb 2020 at 09:22

I was watching cnn through the night and they showed what a bunch of extreme lefties they are.

When they picked the cards out. There was a 3 of diamonds. 4 of spades and Jack of Hearts.
But the cnn lady would not say the spade word. Instead she said it was the 4 of clubs oh dear...

Lefties are going to left....
But well done Bernie....

kinetic747 · 23 Feb 2020 at 10:41

deuse said:
I was watching cnn through the night and they showed what a bunch of extreme lefties they are.

When they picked the cards out. There was a 3 of diamonds. 4 of spades and Jack of Hearts.
But the cnn lady would not say the spade word. Instead she said it was the 4 of clubs oh dear...

Lefties are going to left....
But well done Bernie....

You almost had me there but with all the **** that's flying around, that's the best you can come up with?

deuse · 23 Feb 2020 at 11:06

kinetic747 said:
You almost had me there but with all the **** **** that's flying around, that's the best you can come up with?

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/02/23/nevada-caucuses-cards-bash-vpx.cnn

mmj_uk · 23 Feb 2020 at 13:50

Jono8 said:
It is a conspiracy. It doesn't contradict any "narrative". There is simply no evidence that the FBI investigated the Trump campaign purely out of political bias. The IG report concluded that also.

Have you read any of the texts between Peter Strzok and Lisa Page in the lead up to the 2016 election? the political bias in their text messages was blatantly obvious and these were the people in charge of investigating Hillary (Trump's opponent for president who they absolutely wanted to win). Strzok was kicked off the Mueller investigation because of his very obvious bias revealed in texts between him and Lisa Page.

Jono8 said:
If they are supposed to be so biased and "deep state" , and they didnt want Trump elected, why on earth did they not announce the Trump investigation just before the election instead of Hilary's? That makes zero sense and you know it. To pass it off as "oh well they had to" is just laughable.

They wanted Hillary's deleted email scandal (sorry I mean "matter" as the DNC instructed the FBI to call it) closed after a heavily biased/corrupt investigation, whereas the investigation into Trump was an "insurance policy" (those are Peter Strzok's exact words to Lisa Page when those at the top of the FBI were worried Trump might get elected). Remember everyone including the media thought Hillary had a 95%+ chance of winning.

Jono8 said:
What is even more laughable is that the "they" in all of this are Republicans" (Comey, Rosenstein, Mueller etc)!

That's the whole idea behind a deep state, they have no party affiliation.

kinetic747 · 23 Feb 2020 at 13:58

mmj_uk said:
That's the whole idea behind a deep state, they have no party affiliation.

Unless of course they'd been Democrats then you would have said completely the opposite.

Jono8 · 23 Feb 2020 at 14:06

mmj_uk said:
Have you read any of the texts between Peter Strzok and Lisa Page in the lead up to the 2016 election? the political bias in their text messages was blatantly obvious and these were the people in charge of investigating Hillary (Trump's opponent for president who they absolutely wanted to win). Strzok was kicked off the Mueller investigation because of his very obvious bias revealed in texts between him and Lisa Page.

Yes, people in the FBI have political opinions. Everyone has political opinions. There is still no proof that any of the investigations were started because of that political bias.

mmj_uk said:
They wanted Hillary's deleted email scandal (sorry I mean "matter" as the DNC instructed the FBI to call it) closed after a heavily biased/corrupt investigation, whereas the investigation into Trump was an "insurance policy" (those are Peter Strzok's exact words to Lisa Page when those at the top of the FBI were worried Trump might get elected). Remember everyone including the media thought Hillary had a 95%+ chance of winning.

So why not announce the investigation into Trump? If you wanted to be absolutely sure he didn't get elected, why would you not finish him off by doing that?

mmj_uk said:
That's the whole idea behind a deep state, they have no party affiliation.

Lol. Imagine believing in a "deep state" because a notorious compulsive liar told you there was one

chroniclard · 23 Feb 2020 at 14:08

Why do the TDS nutters love lies so much. :confused:

ChrisLX200 · 23 Feb 2020 at 14:15

They work on the theory that lies+lies+lies=truth

Skunkworks · 23 Feb 2020 at 15:47

I hope the usual hystericals are getting super-duper invested in the latest baseless mudslinging!

Trusty · 23 Feb 2020 at 17:51

Jono8 said:
It is a conspiracy. It doesn't contradict any "narrative". There is simply no evidence that the FBI investigated the Trump campaign purely out of political bias. The IG report concluded that also.

Just because Trump and his sycophants say something, that doesn't make it true.

The FBI likely investigated the Trump campaign because they genuinely thought something may have been going on with regard to Russia (which is entirely understandable after everything that went on).

If they are supposed to be so biased and "deep state" , and they didnt want Trump elected, why on earth did they not announce the Trump investigation just before the election instead of Hilary's? That makes zero sense and you know it. To pass it off as "oh well they had to" is just laughable.

What is even more laughable is that the "they" in all of this are Republicans" (Comey, Rosenstein, Mueller etc)!

How does your reply make any sense to what i said?

Do you still believe Trump is a Russian asset?

The IG report was released but Durham, the investigator who investigates them, didn't agree. How you can say with 100% certainty that its CT is beyond me. Why did Durham disagree with IG report, why is he investigating it?

tang0 · 23 Feb 2020 at 17:59

Trusty said:
Why did Durham disagree with IG report, why is he investigating it?

Barr appointed outside of DC prosecutors to look at all the Ukraine and Flynn stuff too.

He must have nothing else to do apart from investigate these right wing conspiracies :rolleyes:

Jono8 · 23 Feb 2020 at 18:02

tang0 said:
He must have nothing else to do apart from investigate these right wing conspiracies

It's funny because you are saying this sarcastically as if it isn't close to the truth.

Jono8 · 23 Feb 2020 at 18:04

Trusty said:
How does your reply make any sense to what i said?

Do you still believe Trump is a Russian asset?

The IG report was released but Durham, the investigator who investigates them, didn't agree. How you can say with 100% certainty that its CT is beyond me. Why did Durham disagree with IG report, why is he investigating it?

In relation to your question, what does it matter if Trump is a foreign asset or not? He was rightfully suspected of being one, hence the investigation (which as per the IG report, and unless you can provide evidence otherwise, was not started due to political bias)