Police state cometh.

[G-MAN2004]

No issue with it at all They still need to follow the arrest process and generally I don't break the law. This is just a tool to potentially help the police and if its useful in 5% of occasions then that's great

Yes, let's further erode the privacy of everyone in order to catch a few people... Wonderful stuff.

 

[StriderX]

So at the minute there's CCTV everywhere, which you could argue is a problem, but taking the extent of using AI to scan these images for known criminals is a problem, why?



People aren't going to be thrown in prison on the basis of AI though, they can simply flag up images for humans to review.

It very clearly sets in a standard of operation for the police, how long until they get sloppy and just blame it on the algorithm?

How long until it's just used as a political exercise to chest beat that a party is tough on crime because 'numbers' on a spreadsheet look good?

I also like how because the government hasn't bothered to regulate the likes of Twitter, Facebook and people's data in general, well it's justification to just go headstrong with more abuse of said data...

 

[Deleted member 77746]

There isn't anything wrong with cameras everywhere unless you are the criminal or you get wrongly chosen by the cameras as a suspect then jailed.

 

[G-MAN2004]

There isn't anything wrong with cameras everywhere unless you are the criminal or you get wrongly chosen by the cameras as a suspect then jailed.

I think you should let me look through your emails, your private pictures, location history and everything else in your life, because if you aren't a criminal then there's nothing to worry about. You should also take down the curtains or blinds for your home so I can look through the window while you sleep.

 

[Mr Blonde]

Costs less to prevent something than react to it though, so it's a total false economy. I get that one cannot possibly prevent all crimes, but to not even attempt to prevent any is rather agitating.

Aside from my comment being completely tongue in cheek, you don't feel that this sort of thing is a worthwhile addition in the fight against crime? Surely this sort of thing would be yet another deterrent, just like like cops on the beat and prison sentences are? Sure, there's a slight erosion of civil liberties here but what other options are there in an ever growing, diverse and ultimately free-er thinking / more 'accepting' society?

 

[Roar87]

It very clearly sets in a standard of operation for the police, how long until they get sloppy and just blame it on the algorithm?

How long until it's just used as a political exercise to chest beat that a party is tough on crime because 'numbers' on a spreadsheet look good?

I also like how because the government hasn't bothered to regulate the likes of Twitter, Facebook and people's data in general, well it's justification to just go headstrong with more abuse of said data...

It's like AI driving cars, when a car drives for tens of thousands of miles and makes one small mistake it's the end of the world and completely unacceptable, when humans are driving around like morons and hitting each other constantly it's not an issue. AI will no doubt make mistakes, that's why you have a human making the final decision, and then what you have is the capability to arrest known criminals at a vastly increased rate, it actually makes crime more risky to commit because you're more likely to be caught which is surely only a good thing. There's actually a deterrent. Unless you're just looking for an excuse to bash the Tories of course.

 

[StriderX]

In entirely relevant news... wrt to an institute totally not being useless...

City watchdog admits revealing customers' details

The UK's City watchdog has admitted that it inadvertently published online the personal data of people who made complaints against it.

The Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) said the names of the complainants, along with some addresses and telephone numbers, were accessible.

So what happens if you get wrongfully flagged as a criminal and that event leaks to your employer or potential employers? Surely that can't possibly cause issues, right? I mean the government is very competent right?

 

[R.P.L]

I have to say, I am a bit nervous about how powerful technology is becoming. In theory it should only help us, but humans are stupid and irresponsible. With great power comes great responsibility, as the saying goes.

 

[Deleted member 77746]

I think you should let me look through your emails, your private pictures, location history and everything else in your life, because if you aren't a criminal then there's nothing to worry about. You should also take down the curtains or blinds for your home so I can look through the window while you sleep.

Yeh that's fine. Let me know when you are free and I'll pass you over all the details. A camera doesn't do this.

But your analogy is wrong. A camera is to catch people who are already on a wanted list or to find people who they are looking for already.

 

[StriderX]

Yeh that's fine. Let me know when you are free and I'll pass you over all the details. A camera doesn't do this.

But your analogy is wrong. A camera is to catch people who are already on a wanted list or to find people who they are looking for already.

Personally have little disagreement over cameras, they're a legitimate tool. An algorithm however is not, just look in the commercial world at Youtube and all the trouble their own algorithm has had - a total lack of responsibility, constantly running around putting out fires.

Of course the argument is that the scale of the platform (or in this case, public spaces) requires the algorithm, which is such a lame cop-out. We also have Facebook abdicating all responsibility of policing their platform onto governments because it's just 'too hard'. To imagine that facial recognition wont cause issues merely by existing is ignoring precedence.

We're going to finalise the politicisation the police with this and it's going to be a disaster, because no one will be at fault when things aren't quite working out as expected, you can always just fire the Home Secretary and pretend the problem is resolved because the public isn't paying attention. Any failure of the system will merely be used to say the system isn't large enough in scope, not that the system itself is inappropriate, inefficient or outright failing. No doubt to the glee of whatever contractor will supply the system, doubtless with friends in government incentivising more utilisation of the product, honestly that's probably the actual reason for it's uptake over any serious attempt to catch criminals.

 

[cheesyboy]

How's it work when I'm wearing a surgical mask to prevent coronavirus contagion? Do I have to remove it for them?

 

[Rroff]

a total lack of responsibility

This is something that concerns and annoys me - more and more companies are moving to faceless systems as well that when they go wrong, and they do, it is like bashing your head on a brick wall trying to get a human response let alone get a human that understands what the problem is or will take any responsibility.

How's it work when I'm wearing a surgical mask to prevent coronavirus contagion? Do I have to remove it for them?

Gait analysis.

 

[ttaskmaster]

Disgraceful, that they continue down this path of reacting to crime rather than preventing it and presume the public is thick enough to not know the difference, risible.

If you did your job, they wouldn't have to react to anything.
Yes, your job - You, The People... you, Society... Instead of acting like braindead masses, accepting anything in the name of liberty and tolerance, if you enforced a society and a culture where criminals actually feared to commit crimes then the Police might actually be able to cope a bit better. Whatever happened to things like parenting, teaching the yoof that it isn't acceptable to go round carrying blades and nicking peoples' stuff?

Until you stop rolling over and expecting groups like the Police, the schools and the ******** government you voted for, to do the jobs you're not willing to, you will have to be content with whatever half-assed schemes they concoct to try and cope.

 

[peterwalkley]

.....
Gait analysis.

Its time to re-enact the Monty Python silly walks sketch then

 

[StriderX]

If you did your job, they wouldn't have to react to anything.
Yes, your job - You, The People... you, Society... Instead of acting like braindead masses, accepting anything in the name of liberty and tolerance, if you enforced a society and a culture where criminals actually feared to commit crimes then the Police might actually be able to cope a bit better. Whatever happened to things like parenting, teaching the yoof that it isn't acceptable to go round carrying blades and nicking peoples' stuff?

Until you stop rolling over and expecting groups like the Police, the schools and the ******** government you voted for, to do the jobs you're not willing to, you will have to be content with whatever half-assed schemes they concoct to try and cope.

I don't disagree, but you need to give people an example to follow, a moral authority and that seems to simply not exist in today's society. One might presume the government is that authority, but if that's the case, then they surely must enjoy this slide into immorality with how awful they are at it.

Perhaps it should just be accepted that this is the way of things, that the public's hypocrisy (snorting down £200 of cocaine weekly while they moan about people knifing each-other over it's supply) is an impossible barrier to overcome.

 

[ttaskmaster]

I don't disagree, but you need to give people an example to follow, a moral authority and that seems to simply not exist in today's society.

Why do you need an example?
Is the general morality of The People itself not enough?
Once people are properly empowered to step in and deliver a corrective 'piece of their mind' without too much worry of consequence, I think you'll find things improving somewhat.

 

[Hagar]

Meanwhile you are all walking around, tagged by your phone, car or other gadget of choice. I say you because I currently own a dumb phone and car. So with the resources that the state have they can track or backtrack you almost anywhere.

Facial recognition from a van set streetside is relatively benign, (until you feature on a TV cam show called 'Spot the looney').

 

[Orionaut]

that the public's hypocrisy (snorting down £200 of cocaine weekly while they moan about people knifing each-other over it's supply) is an impossible barrier to overcome.

Plenty of people were snorting down cocaine in the 1960's

The trade was undoubtedly operated by unsavoury people, who on occasion did very nasty things to one another, But I Do not recall routine, near daily, teenager/young adult stabbings over its supply and consumption.

That is down to something else. Not just the drugs.

 

[StriderX]

Why do you need an example?
Is the general morality of The People itself not enough?
Once people are properly empowered to step in and deliver a corrective 'piece of their mind' without too much worry of consequence, I think you'll find things improving somewhat.

I dunno, I question that as well, but then what would happen if you took a new born child and isolated it for twenty years? Is the lack of examples a hindrance to it's development or not? A liberal amount of hyperbole, but we aren't that individualistic to just survive free of other's machinations.

Meanwhile you are all walking around, tagged by your phone, car or other gadget of choice. I say you because I currently own a dumb phone and car. So with the resources that the state have they can track or backtrack you almost anywhere.

Facial recognition from a van set streetside is relatively benign, (until you feature on a TV cam show called 'Spot the looney').

That is not justification for this, that is justification to regulate data privacy. To say that we give up, we aren't private anymore is so very easy...

 

[Rroff]

But I Do not recall routine, near daily, teenager/young adult stabbings over its supply and consumption.

Town I grew up in had quite a big drug gang related violence problem including regular stabbings in the approx. 60s until it resulted in a few ring leaders being put behind bars - same again around the 80s or so when they got out until the police clamped down early 90s it had all gone quiet (mostly) until the resurgence lately with the whole county lines drug thing - sadly a big increase in knife crime lately.

Story will vary a lot town to town/region to region though.