EV general discussion

[Journey]

Maybe of interest to some people.

"Webinar – 30th June 4.00pm

On the 30th of June, Charge My Street in association with Cumbria Action for Sustainability (CAfS) will be hosting a free webinar to discuss EV charging in the North West.

You can register for the webinar here.

Included in the session will be a series of presentations by six speakers before the webinar is opened to questions from the public. Speakers and topics will include:
​

• Dr Bella Starling on owning an EV but not a driveway in the North of England.​
• Daniel Heery, director of Charge My Street, on its solution for public charge points​
• Mathew Kiziuk, Renault UK, on the benefits and opportunities of driving an EV​
• Adrian Powell, Charge My Street, on what it means to host an EV chargepoint on your premises​
• Heather Cockett Phillips, West Point House on why their business opted to become a host​
• Phil Gray, Carlisle City Council on why they are deploying Charge My Street charge points​

The webinar will go into detail on a project funded by Innovate UK, the UK’s innovation agency, to install 200 EV chargepoints across the North of England in 2020. The chargepoints will be hosted by communities and individuals and will be for use by the public.​

• Recent years have seen a rise in the uptake of electric vehicles (EVs) in the UK as more people seek out ways to reduce the impact they’re having on our environment. We have also seen announcements of government initiatives aimed at supporting this wide-scale switch from petrol and diesel cars over the coming years.​
• This switch requires changes in the way we live and the infrastructure in our world, and it’s no surprise that a large number of those without an EV say that one of the biggest factors putting them off is a lack of trust in an adequate public charging network.​
• Currently only about 8% of UK chargepoints are located in the North West so clearly things need to change if we are going to see a wider scale adoption of EVs in our region.​

If there is anything you would like to know about the project, such as whether becoming a host site would suit you or you’re just curious about EVs more generally, we encourage you to register with the link provided.

We hope to see you (virtually) on the 30th! You can register for the webinar here."

​

Some interesting speakers, and subjects covered.

 

[chorse]

That would depend heavily on the price segment of the car and the mileage in question, surely? Saving £500/year on running costs on a £60k car will barely make a dent in the total cost of ownership. But saving £2k/year on running costs on a £25k car is going to make a huge difference to ownership costs.

If you're driving an I-Pace 5,000 miles per year, there's a chance it'll be more expensive than an X5 or Cayenne. If you're driving a Leaf 20,000 miles a year, it's probably cheaper than a Focus.

yes fair point. I'm in a Tesla Model 3 company car bubble. (where used isn't really an option) A used zoe for instance offers very low cost miles.

 

[Haggisman]

That would depend heavily on the price segment of the car and the mileage in question, surely? Saving £500/year on running costs on a £60k car will barely make a dent in the total cost of ownership. But saving £2k/year on running costs on a £25k car is going to make a huge difference to ownership costs.

If you're driving an I-Pace 5,000 miles per year, there's a chance it'll be more expensive than an X5 or Cayenne. If you're driving a Leaf 20,000 miles a year, it's probably cheaper than a Focus.

Absolutely - my fuel savings/year alone are ~75% what my old car cost me - even if it is worth literally £0 in 5 years, it will have cost me at most ~£150/month compared to running a 10+ year old ICE like I used to. That's purely predictable running costs, and ignoring the cost of any unexpected repairs (which are basically inevitable on a 10 year old car).

It's probably not quite at the point where it's cheaper than running an old banger, but for the sake of the convenience and reliability, it's money well spent in my opinion! (not to mention it's far nicer to drive)

 

[Joe T]

Has anyone experience of the Andersen A2 charger? While substantially more expensive, the aesthetics are much better than the competition as far as I can see. Important if you want to maintain the looks of your house I guess.

 

[Russinating]

Has anyone experience of the Andersen A2 charger? While substantially more expensive, the aesthetics are much better than the competition as far as I can see. Important if you want to maintain the looks of your house I guess.

No, because it's way overpriced . If you have the kind of Grand Designs house that warrants spending £1,000 on a charger purely to look good then surely you have a garage? It's also way bigger than others and as far as looks and discreetness goes I'd always opt for smaller.

 

[Joe T]

No, because it's way overpriced . If you have the kind of Grand Designs house that warrants spending £1,000 on a charger purely to look good then surely you have a garage? It's also way bigger than others and as far as looks and discreetness goes I'd always opt for smaller.

Thanks for the comment.

I guess it's bigger because it allows the cable to be stored inside it and hidden away?

I dont think you need a particularly spectacular house not to want an ugly piece of plastic on the front of it. Especially if you are married...

 

[Russinating]

Thanks for the comment.

I guess it's bigger because it allows the cable to be stored inside it and hidden away?

I dont think you need a particularly spectacular house not to want an ugly piece of plastic on the front of it. Especially if you are married...

So you have a driveway but no garage? The "ugly pieces of plastic" are less than 15x20x10cm and really not an issue. That's mine, but there's smaller too. If you want tethered rather than untethered then that's a different question because of cable lengths vs parking situation, but if you just want a box to contain the cable around the socket then you could easily create, build or have someone make you something that accurately matches with the house for less than an Anderson. I've seen people get custom-cut cases made of steel with the Tesla logo cut out, for example, or a box clad in wood etc.

Not sure about the marriage comment as I'm far more aesthetically conscious than my other half!

 

[Joe T]

So you have a driveway but no garage? The "ugly pieces of plastic" are less than 15x20x10cm and really not an issue. That's mine, but there's smaller too. If you want tethered rather than untethered then that's a different question because of cable lengths vs parking situation, but if you just want a box to contain the cable around the socket then you could easily create, build or have someone make you something that accurately matches with the house for less than an Anderson. I've seen people get custom-cut cases made of steel with the Tesla logo cut out, for example, or a box clad in wood etc.

Not sure about the marriage comment as I'm far more aesthetically conscious than my other half!

If you see my signature you'll see what's in my garages! To be fair, few people with garages actually use it for their cars (I'm an exception, although I have more cars than most).

Clearly one person's ugly piece of plastic is another persons delightful piece of tech stuck on the front of their house. Aesthetics are subjective of course.

I thought most people went with tethered for home charging, or am I mistaken?

 

[sovietspybob]

To be fair even though i have a garage with a car in it i don't park our daily cars in it, they live outside on the driveway so when i get a charger it'll be on the outside of the garage so i can see why people want something nice looking.

I would probably make a nice case for a cheaper charger myself though if i wanted something that fit in more with the house.

 

[booyaka]

Looked at Anderson but price wise it was nuts. Got a simple but effective Rolec - you can choose from loads of colours if you really wish.

 

[Russinating]

I thought most people went with tethered for home charging, or am I mistaken?

I purposefully didn't because my charger's on the front of my house and I don't have a driveway/garage so I didn't want the mess of the cable wrap around. Plus it's paired with a 10m Type 2 cable which would be one hell of a wrap around!

Like you say, aesthetics are personal so if you can see value in spending ~£750 more on a charger where the sole difference is that you think it looks better then that's obviously your call.

 

[McPhee]

Could always stick a cabinet around a regular charger. But if the cost doesn't mean that much, then those Andersen chargers look fantastic. Assuming the gallery photos are representative of the finished job, it's not just a more expensive charger; they've hidden all the external cables for the ~£500 extra over the cost of a tethered Rolec.

There aren't many reasons to not go tethered now really. All recent cars use the same charge connector, and that isn't likely to change.

 

[WJA96]

Has anyone gone the whole hog and had an additional 3-phase supply installed? I've been quoted £3500+VAT to install a 110kVA supply (enough to run 4 fast chargers) and I think that's seems to be quite good value considering we were quoted £7000 to install FTTP on demand.

 

[jamoor]

Has anyone gone the whole hog and had an additional 3-phase supply installed? I've been quoted £3500+VAT to install a 110kVA supply (enough to run 4 fast chargers) and I think that's seems to be quite good value considering we were quoted £7000 to install FTTP on demand.

Is this for home use or a workplace?

How many cars are you charging? Do you have a car already?

 

[Russinating]

Has anyone gone the whole hog and had an additional 3-phase supply installed? I've been quoted £3500+VAT to install a 110kVA supply (enough to run 4 fast chargers) and I think that's seems to be quite good value considering we were quoted £7000 to install FTTP on demand.

Not a chance. That's the equivalent cost of 28,000kW at a standard daytime rate (15p), or approximately 76,000 odd miles (M3). There has to be a VERY good reason to make that worth it.

 

[WJA96]

Is this for home use or a workplace?

How many cars are you charging? Do you have a car already?

Yes, I have a Model 3 Performance and it's a home office. But it's a proper home office where occasionally I have visitors and meetings etc. And I'm thinking that I could also convert some garden to off-street parking and install a pair of rapid chargers there as well. Maybe even charge the public to charge up there. There are lots of new-build flats in the area with designated parking but literally nowhere you could charge an electric car. So I think there may be a side-business opportunity there as well. I probably won't go any further, but the survey and quote was free, so I'm not out any money at this point.

Unfortunately the Model 3 only supports 11kW so not a massive improvement over the 7.4kW charge available on 1 phase. But plenty of other cars can support 22kW charging and there are companies that will supply serviced 150kW chargers IF you have a suitable 3-phase supply.

 

[WJA96]

Not a chance. That's the equivalent cost of 28,000kW at a standard daytime rate (15p), or approximately 76,000 odd miles (M3). There has to be a VERY good reason to make that worth it.

I think there are a couple of reasons why it might be worth it. And not actually economic. Firstly, I can offer fast charging to my visitors and guests. Secondly, as noted above there may be an opportunity to sell charging to people in the area who otherwise wouldn't have the possibility of on-street charging. And finally, I'm still young enough to think I might outlive my gas boiler. There are rumblings that gas could be phased out as a fuel for home heating and if that happens then 3-phase would make a huge difference. I also think that if I ever came to sell the house, one equipped with fast charging would be more attractive than one without. So, in the same way that not everything has to make pure economic sense to do it, I'm thinking about it.

 

[Matthew.M]

But plenty of other cars can support 22kW charging.

Not really. The Zoe does, the Model S and X depending on year has 16kw AC charging or better. That's about it. Even bigger battery cars like the E-Tron only have 11kw AC chargers (from memory). I-Pace is only 7kw. Etc etc.

For everything faster the vehicles rely on DC charging, so this would seem pointless. 7kw is all you really need on an AC post.

 

[Journey]

I think there are a couple of reasons why it might be worth it. And not actually economic. Firstly, I can offer fast charging to my visitors and guests. Secondly, as noted above there may be an opportunity to sell charging to people in the area who otherwise wouldn't have the possibility of on-street charging. And finally, I'm still young enough to think I might outlive my gas boiler. There are rumblings that gas could be phased out as a fuel for home heating and if that happens then 3-phase would make a huge difference. I also think that if I ever came to sell the house, one equipped with fast charging would be more attractive than one without. So, in the same way that not everything has to make pure economic sense to do it, I'm thinking about it.

I liaised with Polar-Chargemaster to get a free dual socket 7.2kW charging post installed at a local business premises who repair vehicles, it is only one with two sockets but it was to allow them to charge the cars for their customers of PHEV/BEV's and also due to where it is positioned can be used out of hours by other users with a normal Polar card/account.

It took a while to get approval and do all the back and forth, especially since it was a free unit supplied with no costs to the business, and need to prove it would be used and make some money for them in the long term. The option to go with a Ultra/Rapid charge is there as this was approved at the time, but they could not offer the full install at a low enough cost for now, as it was ~£35k for the whole job, and the business would have had to cover almost 50% of it. There is also the option to have additional fast chargers as the supply is 3-phase on site.

 

[jamoor]

Yes, I have a Model 3 Performance and it's a home office. But it's a proper home office where occasionally I have visitors and meetings etc. And I'm thinking that I could also convert some garden to off-street parking and install a pair of rapid chargers there as well. Maybe even charge the public to charge up there. There are lots of new-build flats in the area with designated parking but literally nowhere you could charge an electric car. So I think there may be a side-business opportunity there as well. I probably won't go any further, but the survey and quote was free, so I'm not out any money at this point.

Unfortunately the Model 3 only supports 11kW so not a massive improvement over the 7.4kW charge available on 1 phase. But plenty of other cars can support 22kW charging and there are companies that will supply serviced 150kW chargers IF you have a suitable 3-phase supply.

You may need planning permission for your proposal. But if its to charge your own car at home, do you ever even find yourself needing faster charging? I have an SR+ and it easily charges overnight and its almost always plugged in meaning I rarely need anything faster.