Musing: Can anyone learn to master any skill?

[Akagi]

With enough time and dedication, can anyone learn to master anything?

Or can some people naturally do some things, and some people can't, and thats just the way it is? No amount of forcing the issue will make them a master of a chosen craft?

There are going to be exceptions, physical barriers, someone with severe asthma probably won't win the 100M sprint in the Olympics for example. For the purposes of this discussion I am not talking about those examples.

There are clearly people with natural ability, for instance people who can learn to play an instrument quicker than others, but everyone has to learn in order to play that instrument. With enough time and dedication, could those people to whom it doesn't come naturally, the slow learners, become a master?

Could you pick a person at random in the street, and could they become fluent in Cantonese if they wanted to? Or become a master boat builder? Wood turner? Swimmer? Racing driver? Queen wasp killer? MAC10 acquirer? Can anyone learn how to give a lady the full Tony Williams Experience?

You get the idea.

Is the barrier the natural ability, or the dedication, the persistance, the practice?

Perhaps we all have the natural ability to do one thing really well, and the people who become masters are the people whos interests happen to align with that ability?

My personal experiences which provoked these thoughts in spoiler, because they aren't strictly helpful for the discussion! Read if you wish!

Spoiler

I started to play guitar when I was about 9 years old (I'm now 24) - I plucked away for a few years, had tuition on and off, that sort of thing. I gradually played less and less and at some point when I was about 15 or 16 I stopped playing. I just recently picked up the guitar again, and I haven't forgotten much of what I learned. It makes me wonder. If I had stuck with it... If I had forced myself to practice day in day out... You know?

But it doesn't come naturally to me, I can tell. I am definitely learning slowly. There are people who have only been playing a year who have long since surpassed my ability.

On the other hand I borrowed a drum kit from a friend a few years ago, and I felt like that did come naturally to me, I am very good at keeping rhytm, I always tap away at my desk or my thighs at particular bits in songs, and I could do drum covers of some songs within days if not hours. I'm sure it would take some people months to reach the point I reached (and I'm not claiming I was good!)

I didn't stick with it because it isn't the instrument I wanted to learn to play.

A couple of years ago I won £60 by rapping faster than Eminem did in Rap God. I am a pound-shop Jack Black lookalike who had never listened to a rap song in his life, and the bet was put to me because I appeared to be the farthest thing from a rapper, but I stuck with it, I got reasonably good at it, and I won the bet.

No I will not post a recording...

 

[Rroff]

I think most people with enough dedication can become a master in most things, if they set their mind to it however you might not be able to attain the same level of ability as someone who naturally has instincts for a certain skill. You might get good enough to compete at the highest level but not necessarily set new benchmarks at the highest level.

 

[Drollic]

Depends how you define master. Also depends on what you are trying to master and a persons qualities. The difference between the highest level and the best in the world can also be pretty big.

 

[Raymond Lin]

I am sure practice helps but talent takes it up to the next level, I mean, she also plays guitar and piano. There’s a video of her have a violin literally hang off her chin whilst playing piano.

but it takes real genius to go deaf and still write music like Beethoven.

 

[opethdisciple]

10,000 hours

 

[mmj_uk]

I think it's a lot easier to "master" something when people start in early childhood when brain development is taking place at a much faster rate, same goes for the body if we're talking physical sports.

Is the barrier the natural ability, or the dedication, the persistance, the practice?

As an adult learning something new, all of those things I would say. I would define "natural ability" as how the brain has developed throughout childhood.

 

[LeMson]

There are going to be exceptions, physical barriers, someone with severe asthma probably won't win the 100M sprint in the Olympics for example.

Could try cycling, amazing how many in tour de France are asthmatic

 

[ianh]

I think a huge amount of dedicated practice will take the average person to 90%+ mastery of something, but that last 10% needs something that practice alone can't give, that undefinable x-factor which some might call, rightly or wrongly, "natural talent" which pushes the best to be absolutely phenomenal at their chosen activity.

For most however that 90% mastery is good enough, and there's enough people who can achieve it that it's only those who hit that extra 10% who really stand out as "superstars".

Could try cycling, amazing how many in tour de France are asthmatic

It's amazing just how many top level Cyclists have "suddenly" turn out to be asthmatics, who usually don't take up such a strenuous cardio-vascular sport as cycling

 

[Mr Blonde]

The average Joe in the street could likely get good at something, to one degree or another, but most will have limiting factors as part of their make up or by the time they start down that route. There's also plenty of things that would require a somewhat unique mind or body to accomplish to a high level. I'd guess most people could look good at something to their peers but the chances of being at the absolute top of the pile in anything would be extremely rare.

 

[bris]

I think people can learn things but master them all, no not even close. people have an ability, usually for 1 thing that they master

Most of us will never have that special something that mastery takes. If it were possible there would be thousands of people competing at everything on the highest level, but there isn't.

The real talent lives with a few people at a time with someone new coming along every time to knock them off their perch.

 

[Rroff]

I think people can learn things but master them all, no not even close. people have an ability, usually for 1 thing that they master

Most of us will never have that special something that mastery takes. If it were possible there would be thousands of people competing at everything on the highest level, but there isn't.

The real talent lives with a few people at a time with someone new coming along every time to knock them off their perch.

I think a lot of people underestimate themselves - I see a lot of people who won't show an interest in a subject because they think it should be left to the experts but I'm sure they could be quite capable of at the very least being capable if not excelling in that subject. Or in some cases won't show an interest in a subject because people who have experience in that subject tend to be negative or toxic towards those that try to show an interest in it.

 

[Efour]

95% practice and 5% natural aptitude.
I'd go with.
I agree that anyone could be taught, given age and time, but there is definitely a point where excellence is achieved by the most skilled.

 

[chroniclard]

No.

 

[Ayahuasca]

In reality, no.

In a world where people have nothing else to do and could focus on it full time with no physical or mental disabilities or difficulties, maybe.

Take a skill like comedy and the idea starts to get sketchy quite fast. Certain personalities, ability to read a room, their natural voice, expressions and timings, mean it’s unlikely they would ever rise to the top, no matter how many hours they put in.

 

[Rroff]

Take a skill like comedy and the idea starts to get sketchy quite fast. Certain personalities, ability to read a room, their natural voice, expressions and timings, mean it’s unlikely they would ever rise to the top, no matter how many hours they put in.

True some people will never have that "X factor" when it comes to comedy but with enough time you can learn to read a room, how to engage with and manipulate an audience and so on - even timing can be learnt well enough by many people if you watch enough of the true greats of comedy. You are talking a lot of time possibly a couple of decades of experience to master some of that if it doesn't come naturally though.

 

[moon man]

I really think ability thats there already is more important than learning i,e the way the brain is wired ,i used to be quite good at doing code on the old spectrums but i think my natural ability to do this wasnt on a par with Bill Gates ,copy ,paste
.........................
When I was an assistant professor at Harvard, Bill was a junior. My girlfriend back then said that I had told her: "There's this undergrad at school who is the smartest person I've ever met."

That semester, Gates was fascinated with a math problem called pancake sorting: How can you sort a list of numbers, say 3-4-2-1-5, by flipping prefixes of the list? You can flip the first two numbers to get 4-3-2-1-5, and the first four to finish it off: 1-2-3-4-5. Just two flips. But for a list of n numbers, nobody knew how to do it with fewer than 2n flips. Bill came to me with an idea for doing it with only 1.67n flips. We proved his algorithm correct, and we proved a lower bound—it cannot be done faster than 1.06n flips. We held the record in pancake sorting for decades. It was a silly problem back then, but it became important, because human chromosomes mutate this way.

Two years later, I called to tell him our paper had been accepted to a fine math journal. He sounded eminently disinterested. He had moved to Albuquerque, New Mexico to run a small company writing code for microprocessors, of all things. I remember thinking: "Such a brilliant kid. What a waste."

 

[mjt]

10,000 hours

This, of deliberate practice. And natural talent.

 

[Adam]

Run a marathon. It will teach you that with a process, discipline and determination you can do most things you set your mind to.

 

[Deleted member 77746]

A couple of years ago I won £60 by rapping faster than Eminem did in Rap God. I am a pound-shop Jack Black lookalike who had never listened to a rap song in his life, and the bet was put to me because I appeared to be the farthest thing from a rapper, but I stuck with it, I got reasonably good at it, and I won the bet.

No I will not post a recording...

Didn't happen. No recording, didn't happen.

 

[Trusty]

Sort of yes, IQ and conscientiousness are bigger factors in rising to the top, but you then need to add in ambition, passion, determination, resourcefulness & hardiness as well.