Engine swaps - dvla and insurance?

The Running Man · 13 Jul 2020 at 13:44

hi guys looking for some advice...

I'm looking at a car with an engine swap. The car is updated to be a turbo engine with the dvla (same cc just engine swap to turbo) from non turbo.

Now if I speak to insurers and guve them the plate - do I need to declare its had a turbo engine swap or because its on the v5 that's what it is would hmthat suffice? Said car is now an xxxxx turbo on the v5

Just a hypothetical question...

wesimmo · 13 Jul 2020 at 13:44

It's a mod, declare it.

Joe T · 13 Jul 2020 at 14:31

Definitely declare it.

You may also need to provide an engine/block number.

Temujin · 13 Jul 2020 at 14:33

Definitely needs to be declared, if only so there's a note of it. Just because it's on the V5 doesn't mean they'll pick up the change when quoting, and it could be the difference between them being willing to cover it or not covering it at all!

DereksDontRun · 13 Jul 2020 at 14:33

wesimmo said:
It's a mod, declare it.

is it as simple as that?

I think you need to chat with the insurance company and explain the situation, asking them to define it for you.

I think I get what Running Man is asking. The V5 has been updated to reflect the engine change, so it's not a "mod" in a traditional sense, which is a deviation from the V5. e.g. a turbo on a NA car, the v5 wont mention turbo, so it's a mod. But a kit car built with a turbo engine had a V5 for that engine and thus it's not handled as a base engine with a turbo mod.

Yes, I understand that the car has been modified from leaving the factory, but I can understand an argument that if the car reflects the V5 then it's not modified. (yes, i know that some insurance companies now class factory fitted options as "mods" - so a brand new car with it's v5 could well have a load of listed "mods" in that instance).

The Running Man · 13 Jul 2020 at 14:36

DereksDontRun said:
is it as simple as that?

I think I get what Running Man is asking. The V5 has been updated to reflect the engine change, so it's not a "mod" in a traditional sense, which is a deviation from the V5. e.g. a turbo on a MX5, the v5 wont mention turbo, so it's a mod. But a kit car built with a turbo engine had a V5 for that engine and thus it's not handled as a base engine with a turbo mod.

Yes, I understand that the car has been modified from leaving the factory, but I can understand an argument that if the car reflects the V5 then it's not modified. (yes, i know that some insurance companies now class factory fitted options as "mods" - so a brand new car with it's v5 could well have a load of listed "mods" in that instance).

Exactly if the model has been updated in the dvla database then declaring it again to insurance would be double declaring it to an extent they should have already priced this in when you gave them the reg and they pulled up the model on their database from the dvla?

Engine is declared to dvla and listed as such.

Nasher · 13 Jul 2020 at 14:50

Tell insurer. Most people probably dont bother telling the DVLA about these things though.

Clarkey · 13 Jul 2020 at 15:05

Just tell the insurer. Probably only tell the DVLA if the engine capacity has changed. I get that a lot of people don't do that though, probably opens a can of worms with emissions and all that.

The Running Man · 13 Jul 2020 at 15:06

So its not my car, engine was done years ago and is declared I was just thinking of buying it and wondering about insurance declarations/cost

Temujin · 13 Jul 2020 at 15:13

Get quotes done where the insurer knows it has had an engine swap.
Waving the V5 around in the possible scenario where a claim is made and the insurer tries to get out of paying out is probably not going to get you anywhere just because the V5 says it's a different engine.. It's more than likely going to increase the cost of the insurance, and cause some insurers that may insure a turbo variant that's standard not be able to cover it since they don't cover engine changes/upgrades...

Nasher · 13 Jul 2020 at 15:20

Clarkey said:
Just tell the insurer. Probably only tell the DVLA if the engine capacity has changed. I get that a lot of people don't do that though, probably opens a can of worms with emissions and all that.

Some activated carbon pods on the end of the exhaust at MOT time

InvaderGIR · 13 Jul 2020 at 15:25

Clarkey said:
Just tell the insurer. Probably only tell the DVLA if the engine capacity has changed. I get that a lot of people don't do that though, probably opens a can of worms with emissions and all that.

Heaps of people in the VW Golf world have mk1 and mk2 1.3/1.6 cars converted to 1.8T etc. and list them for sale as "not declared to DVLA so cheap on insurance" etc. :rolleyes:

Generally from what I've previously understood though, emissions is fine as it tends to run off the chassis requirements not the engine one. So a 2005 engine in a 1990 car would only have to conform to 1990 emissions regs, but obviously it's sensible to read up on these things properly yourself in case that isn't the case.

The Running Man · 13 Jul 2020 at 15:32

InvaderGIR said:
Heaps of people in the VW Golf world have mk1 and mk2 1.3/1.6 cars converted to 1.8T etc. and list them for sale as "not declared to DVLA so cheap on insurance" etc.

Generally from what I've previously understood though, emissions is fine as it tends to run off the chassis requirements not the engine one. So a 2005 engine in a 1990 car would only have to conform to 1990 emissions regs, but obviously it's sensible to read up on these things properly yourself in case that isn't the case.

That implies alerting the dvla should mean insurance is factored in from the reg?

Temujin · 13 Jul 2020 at 15:38

The Running Man said:
That implies alerting the dvla should mean insurance is factored in from the reg?

Do you want us to just tell you it doesn't matter and to get a quote on the original engine?
If you want to chance not telling them, then that's your look out. It seems most people are advising you to inform the insurer, yet you keep coming back to the fact the DVLA probably has the correct information and thus so should the insurer, absolving you of needing to tell them..
It's your risk, not ours, you choose to listen or not.

The Running Man · 13 Jul 2020 at 15:41

akaFonzie said:
Do you want us to just tell you it doesn't matter and to get a quote on the original engine?
If you want to chance not telling them, then that's your look out. It seems most people are advising you to inform the insurer, yet you keep coming back to the fact the DVLA probably has the correct information and thus so should the insurer, absolving you of needing to tell them..
It's your risk, not ours, you choose to listen or not.

I'm doing neither just soliciting opinion. I have an insurer who will insure the car with engine swap at the same price as the original car that came with said turbo engine.

Just looking for real world experience etc

InvaderGIR · 13 Jul 2020 at 15:42

The Running Man said:
That implies alerting the dvla should mean insurance is factored in from the reg?

If it's all declared properly, in theory it should be fine, however I would also ensure I told any prospective insurance company that it wasn't a standard engine.

E: I'd also add that the DVLA will likely just report the engine size and not the configuration etc. so if it went from a carbed 1.0 to a turboed 2.0 then the DVLA might well only have it down as 1000cc to 2000cc change and so insurance would only get that and not the full info.

If a vehicle is modified from standard, just declare it all and if insurance say it's fine, their records match the new engine anyway it's not an issue (but I double their records will).

What does the DVLA site for car checking report the engine etc as?

Clarkey · 13 Jul 2020 at 15:45

The Running Man said:
That implies alerting the dvla should mean insurance is factored in from the reg?

Really don't think this is true. You are limited on the things which can be changed on the V5, you can change the engine CC and engine number. The rest of the stuff is from the European certificate of conformity when new and can't be changed, this is the kind of data insurers use to identify the specifics of the car and it's associated risk. A modified car will have to be declared as such to the insurer as they will be going on data from when the car was registered.

The Running Man · 13 Jul 2020 at 15:48

InvaderGIR said:
If it's all declared properly, in theory it should be fine, however I would also ensure I told any prospective insurance company that it wasn't a standard engine.

E: I'd also add that the DVLA will likely just report the engine size and not the configuration etc. so if it went from a carbed 1.0 to a turboed 2.0 then the DVLA might well only have it down as 1000cc to 2000cc change and so insurance would only get that and not the full info.

If a vehicle is modified from standard, just declare it all and if insurance say it's fine, their records match the new engine anyway it's not an issue (but I double their records will).

What does the DVLA site for car checking report the engine etc as?

Says 2.0 but it was a 2.0 anyway. 2.0 na to 2.0 turbo but now its listed as a turbo model with the dvla I understand.

Joe T · 13 Jul 2020 at 16:07

Both my V8 cars have non-standard engine blocks, both bigger than factory, both declared to the DVLA.

Would I consider not telling an insurance company that the engines were not original? No way.

If they ask you if the car has been modified from its original specification you cannot answer 'no'.
It's likely that the new engine is not in it's 'stock' form anyway. Most engine swaps also lead to other performance modifications, so at that point you'd need to go through the whole thing anyway.
A car modified to be the same as another derivative of the same model is not the same thing to insure as a stock version of the other derivative, for a whole host of reasons

"andy" · 13 Jul 2020 at 16:15

I've declared these sort of mods to insurers and it's never even effected the price that much if anything. Some have asked for engine numbers and some haven't. Id always think of that the more you tell them the better really.