EV general discussion

jamoor said:
Is it cheaper then?
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Not than the 240 diesel no. However it’s £300 more than the slightly lower output P300.So VED and fuel soon cancels that difference out for public buyers. Let alone company car schemes.

Oh and of course the refinement is another level.
 
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I think PHEV sounds good, but the more you think about it the more compromises there are. It’s either the best of both worlds or the worst of both worlds.

I do think the solution is full BEV but we need a wider range of cars and tesla-like supercharging for all (e.g. every motorway service station has 20+ chargers, every petrol station has 2+ rapid chargers). Rapid charging at places like supermarkets (not free otherwise it’ll be abused) would be useful for those that can’t charge at home.
 
Jonnycoupe said:
Not than the 240 diesel no. However it’s £300 more than the slightly lower output P300.So VED and fuel soon cancels that difference out for public buyers. Let alone company car schemes.
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Doesn’t sound like a great deal then.


The phev technology was relevant in 2012 with the Vauxhall ampera
Times have moved on since theN
 
jamoor said:
Doesn’t sound like a great deal then.


The phev technology was relevant in 2012 with the Vauxhall ampera
Times have moved on since theN
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If battery technology progresses as expected, PHEV also starts to make a lot of sense. Especially if you factor in the future pipeline of e-fuels.
 
jamoor said:
Doesn’t sound like a great deal then.


The phev technology was relevant in 2012 with the Vauxhall ampera
Times have moved on since theN
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Its not an offer at Greggs mate. It was as relevant as the sales of the Ampera suggested - people didn’t buy it : hence the extend the gen2 didn’t even come to the UK. The relevance comes now with the current push for low CO2 for EU fine avoidance, company car rates and falling price of batteries and HV commodities.

In my view the PHEV evoque is now the pick of the range.
 
Jonnycoupe said:
Its not an offer at Greggs mate. It was as relevant as the sales of the Ampera suggested - people didn’t buy it : hence the extend the gen2 didn’t even come to the UK. In my view the PHEV evoque is the pick of the range.
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Exactly my point, no one wanted it then and no one is queuing up to buy it now unless it some sort of tax dodge like the outlander was.
 
Wasn’t that more about that individual car and it’s price than PHEVs in general?

It was really expensive to buy and wasn’t really attractive to fleet/lease/company buyers.

It sold very well in other parts of Europe due to various incentives which reduces its cost.
 
Lets be real, the zero company car tax is pushing BEV sales up, were it not for that people would still be happily driving petrol or diesels.
 
Indeed that is a consequence of government initiative to meet the various commitments such as Kyoto and council NOx limits. Not sure any of the company car people were driving around in pure petrols though.
 
Tinders said:
Lets be real, the zero company car tax is pushing BEV sales up, were it not for that people would still be happily driving petrol or diesels.
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yep I think because the products are expensive generally companies are the only ones that can afford them. Over tome these will trickle into the used market to gain mass market acceptance
 
I switched from a privately owned (3 year old) 3 series to a privately owned Tesla M3 because it costs about the same to own, and the experience of owning an driving it is so much more enjoyable. The Tesla costs about £150 more per month, but I am saving £150 per month in fuel. (2p per mile instead of 12-15p per mile).

I appreciate lots of people don’t want a Tesla but if BMW/Audi/Merc launched a decent electric 3-series/A4/C class (then the many other models including the SUVs) I expect they’d sell like mad.
 
jamoor said:
yep I think because the products are expensive generally companies are the only ones that can afford them. Over tome these will trickle into the used market to gain mass market acceptance
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No OEM makes a car for second hand buyers.
 
Individuals buying new cars is still a significant market, just less attractive to BEV because they don’t have as large incentives through tax (including fuel duty) savings.

Private buyers just don’t do the mileage to make it cost effective over the period of the finance agreement they typically sign up for. Very few private buyers buy cars to keep compared to your typical PCP/PCH cycle.

TCO is much more important to fleet operators than a private buyer who rarely even considers it.

In reality they need to push more in the van and lorry space if we have any hope of meeting our own climate targets. Things are moving slower there than the car market.
 
The British company ARRIVAL are doing some great work in the van/lorry/bus space - this video is well worth a watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I781itRPJH8

UPS have just ordered 10,000 vans from them. The money this will save them will be amazing - and I’d chose them over a competitor now because they are making this step in the right direction. Nothing worse that diesel vans driving around urban and residential areas stopping every few hundred yards!
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
Private buyers just don’t do the mileage to make it cost effective over the period of the finance agreement they typically sign up for. Very few private buyers buy cars to keep compared to your typical PCP/PCH cycle.
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If you look into this though — if you do 10,000 miles a year, this will cost about £1500 in fuel in a diesel and about £200 in an EV. That’s £108/month difference which can be put towards the higher cost of buying/hiring/leasing an EV.

E.g If it’s £400/month to lease a 330d and £500/month to lease a Model 3, the actual cost works out about the same.

Once more people start leasing and PCP’ing EV’s, this will bring 2/3 year old used models which will hopefully then build a good used market.

The main issue is there’s only really the Tesla M3 that’s a viable alternative to the 3 Series / A4 / C class right now. We need more options!
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
Things are moving slower there than the car market.
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However they will transition much more quickly once the right vehicles are available, especially once the financial savings are taken into account, or the penalties on the other side.

From a personal point of view, the fuel savings we are making every month, due to going electric, are being put into solar/battery/ASHP fund, which will end up being a great long term investment instead of paying most of it to big oil/taxes.
 
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