They should have used Taser on all of them...

[Psycho Sonny]

Things were out of control before the police were called. Assaulting medical staff is completely inexcusable.

2 wrongs don't make a right.

The guy shouldn't have touched the doctor however one person's push is another person's trying to get past to get to his dying daughter. We will never know if it was a proper assault or assault as determined by law.

Apparently stopping someone and not letting them past is assault therefore are charity workers assaulting people every time they harass them in the street?

I'd say going by past medical history of their daughter they should have been better prepared especially given their occupations.

I don't believe a hospital would turn off a little girls life support unless all hope was gone.

If they did then you could sue under articles 2 and 3 of the human rights act.

You can also make an official complaint and ask for another consultation with a different consultant for a second opinion. Albeit I highly doubt that a second consultant would go against another but I'd like to think if a little girls life was at stake the correct decision would be made.

Therefore the parents were likley in the wrong and I'd say the police were too. You cannot do that in front of a dying child.

As for the op it's a terrible post so much so that I'd be willing to bet on the fact he's either a racist or a troll.

 

[dowie]

Therefore the parents were likley in the wrong and I'd say the police were too. You cannot do that in front of a dying child.

It isn't clear the child was dying then, I mean that would be rather a different scenario, but I think that has been used to muddle things. They'd been told that the tube was coming out but the police were pretty clear in the video that they weren't doing it right now etc...

It is a ward with other patients on and it seems like they're overstaying visiting hours/getting in the way and then being belligerent ergo they've had to be removed. I doubt very much the hospital would prevent them from being there if she was dying, as per the video clip the police told them they'd be called if she deteriorated etc..

 

[Psycho Sonny]

It isn't clear the child was dying then, I mean that would be rather a different scenario, but I think that has been used to muddle things. They'd been told that the tube was coming out but the police were pretty clear in the video that they weren't doing it right now etc...

It is a ward with other patients on and it seems like they're overstaying visiting hours/getting in the way and then being belligerent ergo they've had to be removed. I doubt very much the hospital would prevent them from being there if she was dying, as per the video clip the police told them they'd be called if she deteriorated etc..

I do think that they were taking the pee if she's been in that state for 2 years given her medical history. You have to think about quality of life.

I cannot believe how selfish they were being especially given how many similar scenarios they would have seen, heard about or experienced.

I still think that someone needed to sit down and talk with them. They as doctors should have a duty of care for the responsibility of the health of everyone and to use up limited resources needlessly is crazy given their professions.

The amount of force used was excessive though given where they were and the fact their daughter was in the room, I don't think anyone helped the situation. Both parties in the wrong for me but I don't have access to all the info.

 

[Deleted member 68110]

The only sources most seemed to go off in here were 3 badly written and quite obviously biased articles.

Ah yes, the famously anti-authoritarian, Pro-BAME Daily Mail.

Out of interest, of those berating the parents of a dying daughter for not acting more dispassionately, how many are parents themselves? I know @Uther mentioned this, but specifically, can anyone actually answer?

Eg...

Parents were a disgrace. Grow up.

hopefully the police would taze you so your daughters last memory was you ******* yourself like a child.

...Because it comes across like the people siding with the police in this situation have a pathological lack of empathy.

I'm not an expert but you read things like this...

"The Big Five personality traits associated with psychopathy are those associated with low warmth toward children, authoritarian (dominating) and neglectful parenting."

~ https://www.intechopen.com/books/ps...non/psychopathy-a-behavioral-systems-approach

... And you start to think, "Well, if the shoe fits..."

 

[Akagi]

I had to read the OP about 7 times and i still haven't decided if you actually meant the mind numbingly stupid thing you said.

Completely void of any compassion or understanding.

 

[Dis86]

I had to read the OP about 7 times and i still haven't decided if you actually meant the mind numbingly stupid thing you said.

Completely void of any compassion or understanding.

I just don't think he can string a sentence together tbh.

 

[Diddums]

This thread...

Is there a TLDR with actual facts rather than all the conjecture and opinion it's currently comprised of?

 

[McstylisT]

There is some many things happening in this situation.
But we need to be decisive and draw simple facts. The police are there to do a job. They are there to protect the public, stop crime and deal with any situations that arrive. Some are unprecedented.
When these times arise, no “extra” care or overly relaxed measure of policing should apply. They have to be professional and do their job. Perhaps if Corbyn was PM they might be forced to do so via strange ideology.
But in the real world that does and should not happen. The police have to be a force and have the ability to enforce accordingly. It’s a very difficult job. There is no “ideal” outcome to this scenario.
I think people have eluded to the point it’s a moral concept. But let’s agree this was not police wrongdoing at all.

 

[Akagi]

Love that you had to somehow weave in a spiteful comment about Corbyn, when it has absolutely no relevance to the discussion, and he isnt even the Labour leader anymore...

 

[Junglist]

Christ. Imagine lacking that much empathy where you're unable to put yourself in the shoes of someone with a dying daughter and finding it alien that they'd do anything to be near their side, not knowing how much more time they have with them. A shove would be the least of someones worries if they stood between me and a dying loved one.

Even as someone who isn't a parent I still understand why he did what he did. I can only 'LOL' and shake my head at the chumps saying you should be calm and follow orders like a good boy because PC Plod asked you to, whilst your bloody daughter is there dying. As if that's not a big enough reason alone to be a bit out of the loop. Imagine that... your child, who you probably love and value more than life itself, is dying by your side, you're being asked to leave them and you're supposed to be rational in that situation? Nonsense.

 

[Theophany]

Love that you had to somehow weave in a spiteful comment about Corbyn, when it has absolutely no relevance to the discussion, and he isnt even the Labour leader anymore...

Yes, but just think of what might have happened if Michael Foot had become PM!!?!

 

[Burnsy2023]

Christ. Imagine lacking that much empathy where you're unable to put yourself in the shoes of someone with a dying daughter and finding it alien that they'd do anything to be near their side, not knowing how much more time they have with them. A shove would be the least of someones worries if they stood between me and a dying loved one.

Even as someone who isn't a parent I still understand why he did what he did. I can only 'LOL' and shake my head at the chumps saying you should be calm and follow orders like a good boy because PC Plod asked you to, whilst your bloody daughter is there dying. As if that's not a big enough reason alone to be a bit out of the loop. Imagine that... your child, who you probably love and value more than life itself, is dying by your side, you're being asked to leave them and you're supposed to be rational in that situation? Nonsense.

So ultimately, I agree that the parents behaviour, whilst difficult, was human and completely understandable. But on the other side, if you suspected the parents would prevent staff removing life saving equipment from their daughter, despite a court order, what do you do?

 

[Junglist]

So ultimately, I agree that the parents behaviour, whilst difficult, was human and completely understandable. But on the other side, if you suspected the parents would prevent staff removing life saving equipment from their daughter, despite a court order, what do you do?

Presumably they would've tried to fight the court order and if they would've lost they may have been more understanding - but even if they weren't it would be understandable why not given the circumstances.

It's tough and I'm very glad I'd never have to make such an important call either way.

Let's be honest, there were no winners in this. A family has lost a daughter, a person was assaulted and I expect the police would rather do a thousand different things than separate a clearly grieving parent from their child. While no one wants to be assaulted and I doubt any police would want to drag someone away from their dying daughter my sympathy only really goes out to the ones losing their child.

 

[Burnsy2023]

Presumably they would've tried to fight the court order and if they would've lost they may have been more understanding - but even if they weren't it would be understandable why not given the circumstances.

I believe that prior to the video they had a 3 week court hearing in which they lost.

It's tough and I'm very glad I'd never have to make such an important call either way.

Let's be honest, there were no winners in this. A family has lost a daughter, a person was assaulted and I expect the police would rather do a thousand different things than separate a clearly grieving parent from their child. While no one wants to be assaulted and I doubt any police would want to drag someone away from their dying daughter my sympathy only really goes out to the ones losing their child.

Indeed, there are no winners in this.

 

[Dis86]

Presumably they would've tried to fight the court order and if they would've lost they may have been more understanding - but even if they weren't it would be understandable why not given the circumstances.

They did. And lost.

 

[Junglist]

Which is why I said in spite of that it's still understandable to not expect a parent to behave rationally.

Easy to pretend you're Mr Level Headed when on a forum and it's not your daughters life you're fighting for.

 

[Dis86]

Which is why I said in spite of that it's still understandable to not expect a parent to behave rationally.

Easy to pretend you're Mr Level Headed when on a forum and it's not your daughters life you're fighting for.

They weren't fighting for her life. Sitting there next to an unresponsive child is not a fight. There was nothing stopping them leaving and coming back the next day. Heck, even the police officer said that.

 

[Junglist]

Again, it's easy to say this when it isn't your child and you have no emotional attachment to them.

To someone who has no feeling towards who they're leaving what you're saying is very easy. But when you're saying it about the parent it doesn't matter if they're unresponsive or not, it's their child. It's not as easy for them to do that as it's a completely different situation.

I get it, in 2020 it's cool to appear you don't have empathy or can't understand why others in a completely different situation than you'll, hopefully never be in, react to something. But it's really not hard to understand why the parents acted the way they did.

Think if it was your mother, father, brother, sister, cousin or whoever else you hold dear to yourself. Then think that if they were dying and you didn't know how long they'd have left and someone was trying to stop you seeing them - for right or wrong reasons - would you just gracefully leave the building? Even if it is police are they still going to stop you easily as you get to spend however many minutes/hours your loved one has left? I'd be willing to bet most people would behaved in exact same way when it comes to loved ones.

Clearly a lot of do-gooders with stone hearts on this forum.

 

[Theophany]

Again, it's easy to say this when it isn't your child and you have no emotional attachment to them.

To someone who has no feeling towards who they're leaving what you're saying is very easy. But when you're saying it about the parent it doesn't matter if they're unresponsive or not, it's their child. It's not as easy for them to do that as it's a completely different situation.

I get it, in 2020 it's cool to appear you don't have empathy or can't understand why others in a completely different situation than you'll, hopefully never be in, react to something. But it's really not hard to understand why the parents acted the way they did.

Think if it was your mother, father, brother, sister, cousin or whoever else you hold dear to yourself. Then think that if they were dying and you didn't know how long they'd have left and someone was trying to stop you seeing them - for right or wrong reasons - would you just gracefully leave the building? Even if it is police are they still going to stop you easily as you get to spend however many minutes/hours your loved one has left? I'd be willing to bet most people would behaved in exact same way when it comes to loved ones.

Clearly a lot of do-gooders with stone hearts on this forum.

I think we normally share a similar place when it comes to our views, but I'm not sure I'm with you on this. It's not a 'cool to be cruel' thing, it's just having seen a number of family members struggle with conditions that reduced their quality of life to near enough nothing, what the family did makes no sense to me - especially given that they have worked for the NHS and the mother was a doctor. I get the distinct impression that they fought against their child's caregivers because they thought they knew better. NHS workers have the right to go about their jobs without feeling harrassed by the families of their patients.

I understand being upset at being dragged away from your dying child, I really do. However I find it hard to muster much sympathy when, by other accounts, he had failed repeatedly to moderate his behaviour. That doesn't condone the behaviour of the officers involved, but it wouldn't be the first time somebody throwing their weight around one minute suddenly pipes the hell down once the police roll up.

 

[Dis86]

Again, it's easy to say this when it isn't your child and you have no emotional attachment to them.

To someone who has no feeling towards who they're leaving what you're saying is very easy. But when you're saying it about the parent it doesn't matter if they're unresponsive or not, it's their child. It's not as easy for them to do that as it's a completely different situation.

I get it, in 2020 it's cool to appear you don't have empathy or can't understand why others in a completely different situation than you'll, hopefully never be in, react to something. But it's really not hard to understand why the parents acted the way they did.

Think if it was your mother, father, brother, sister, cousin or whoever else you hold dear to yourself. Then think that if they were dying and you didn't know how long they'd have left and someone was trying to stop you seeing them - for right or wrong reasons - would you just gracefully leave the building? Even if it is police are they still going to stop you easily as you get to spend however many minutes/hours your loved one has left? I'd be willing to bet most people would behaved in exact same way when it comes to loved ones.

Clearly a lot of do-gooders with stone hearts on this forum.

So again, are we saying the medical staff who have been threatened and assaulted have no rights to a safe workplace? What about the knock on effect this has on the other patients and their families who now have to be treated by staff that potentially feel unsafe or stressed? Nah, **** them. This guy and his family matter more.