They should have used Taser on all of them...

Dis86 said:
So again, are we saying the medical staff who have been threatened and assaulted have no rights to a safe workplace? What about the knock on effect this has on the other patients and their families who now have to be treated by staff that potentially feel unsafe or stressed? Nah, **** them. This guy and his family matter more.
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Yes. Because that is exactly what I said.

Junglist said:
Let's be honest, there were no winners in this. A family has lost a daughter, a person was assaulted and I expect the police would rather do a thousand different things than separate a clearly grieving parent from their child. While no one wants to be assaulted and I doubt any police would want to drag someone away from their dying daughter my sympathy only really goes out to the ones losing their child.
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But when you're actually able to see the trees through the woods is quite easy to understand the fathers actions. He pushed past a doctor. He didn't beat them to a pulp and it's not like he was a violent criminal. I could just shove your shoulder and if you so wished you could file that as assault the same as if I had punched you, so the level of 'assault' in this case matters.

Mr Abbasi, a respiratory expert who works at a different hospital, stormed out of the meeting but hospital staff then called police, claiming he pushed a senior doctor who attempted to prevent him returning to his daughter’s bedside.
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Pushed. He didn't attack. He just pushed. Are you going to tell me that what he did was so awful he deserved to be dragged out of the hospital given the circumstances in which he felt like he had to be beside his daughter? I'm still willing to bet that most people would behave the same if they were put in that situation.

Of course everyone is entitled to work without the fear of being shouted at/assaulted but you have to be lacking either common sense, which I don't think you are, or you must have a serious lack of empathy to realise this isn't the same as a regular assault and police heavy handedness.

Read the room. A guy is devastated he is about to lose his daughter of course he wont be acting 'normally'.
 
Junglist said:
Yes. Because that is exactly what I said.



But when you're actually able to see the trees through the woods is quite easy to understand the fathers actions. He pushed past a doctor. He didn't beat them to a pulp and it's not like he was a violent criminal. I could just shove your shoulder and if you so wished you could file that as assault the same as if I had punched you, so the level of 'assault' in this case matters.



Pushed. He didn't attack. He just pushed. Are you going to tell me that what he did was so awful he deserved to be dragged out of the hospital given the circumstances in which he felt like he had to be beside his daughter? I'm still willing to bet that most people would behave the same if they were put in that situation.

Of course everyone is entitled to work without the fear of being shouted at/assaulted but you have to be lacking either common sense, which I don't think you are, or you must have a serious lack of empathy to realise this isn't the same as a regular assault and police heavy handedness.

Read the room. A guy is devastated he is about to lose his daughter of course he wont be acting 'normally'.
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Did he intentionally make unwanted and unwarranted physical contact with a doctor? Yes or no?
 
Junglist said:
Read the room. A guy is devastated he is about to lose his daughter of course he wont be acting 'normally'.
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I agree, unlike some here, I don't blame the parents for their actions considering the awful circumstances they were in, but I also think their actions made the conclusion of police intervention inevitable.
 
Dis86 said:
Did he intentionally make unwanted and unwarranted physical contact with a doctor? Yes or no?
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I don't know why you think you're about to try and catch me out as if it's some massive 'A-HA GOTCHA' moment. I've said someone was assaulted. But I'm not dealing in black or white as you appear to be.

So just so you understand my point.

I understand why police were called and had to remove him.
I also understand why the father acted the way he did.

I'm not excusing him for pushing past a doctor but I'm not going to demonise him as if he had done something no other parent would've done. He didn't need to be dragged out the way he was. The police, while they have a duty to ensure no further trouble happens, could've also dealt with it better.

Burnsy2023 said:
I agree, unlike some here, I don't blame the parents for their actions considering the awful circumstances they were in, but I also think their actions made the conclusion of police intervention inevitable.
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Agreed. It's not like his daughter was there for a broken arm or something trivial like that. Of course he could've dealt with it better but I'm sure getting thrown out of hospital or even dealing with things better is at the forefront of your mind in a moment like that.
 
Junglist said:
I don't know why you think you're about to try and catch me out as if it's some massive 'A-HA GOTCHA' moment. I've said someone was assaulted. But I'm not dealing in black or white as you appear to be.

So just so you understand my point.

I understand why police were called and had to remove him.
I also understand why the father acted the way he did.

I'm not excusing him for pushing past a doctor but I'm not going to demonise him as if he had done something no other parent would've done. He didn't need to be dragged out the way he was. The police, while they have a duty to ensure no further trouble happens, could've also dealt with it better.


Agreed. It's not like his daughter was there for a broken arm or something trivial like that. Of course he could've dealt with it better but I'm sure getting thrown out of hospital or even dealing with things better is at the forefront of your mind in a moment like that.
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What you're saying is justice should be waylaid and the circumstances of others ignored because of this man's. Let's be clear, he is a grown adult. He is responsible for his actions. He chose to do what he did. The police cannot ignore this, as you concede. They were reasonable. They were respectful. They were patient. He was none of the above. Given his refusal to move, his arrogance, the physical outcome was inevitable.
 
Dis86 said:
What you're saying is justice should be waylaid and the circumstances of others ignored because of this man's. Let's be clear, he is a grown adult. He is responsible for his actions. He chose to do what he did. The police cannot ignore this, as you concede. They were reasonable. They were respectful. They were patient. He was none of the above. Given his refusal to move, his arrogance, the physical outcome was inevitable.
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Why wasn't the hospital staff trying to prevent him leaving a room arrested for false imprisonment - False imprisonment is the only crime i see being commited in this case:

False imprisonment occurs when a person intentionally restricts another person’s movement within any area without legal authority, justification, or the restrained person's permission.[1] Actual physical restraint is not necessary for false imprisonment to occur. A false imprisonment claim may be made based upon private acts, or upon wrongful governmental detention. For detention by the police, proof of false imprisonment provides a basis to obtain a writ of habeas corpus.[2]

Under common law, false imprisonment is both a crime and a tort.
 
awaybreaktoday said:
Why wasn't the hospital staff trying to prevent him leaving a room arrested for false imprisonment - False imprisonment is the only crime i see being commited in this case:

False imprisonment occurs when a person intentionally restricts another person’s movement within any area without legal authority, justification, or the restrained person's permission.[1] Actual physical restraint is not necessary for false imprisonment to occur. A false imprisonment claim may be made based upon private acts, or upon wrongful governmental detention. For detention by the police, proof of false imprisonment provides a basis to obtain a writ of habeas corpus.[2]

Under common law, false imprisonment is both a crime and a tort.
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They didn't try and stop him leaving, they tried to stop him entering an area of the hospital...
 
Dis86 said:
They didn't try and stop him leaving, they tried to stop him entering an area of the hospital...
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Mr Abbasi, a respiratory expert who works at a different hospital, stormed out of the meeting but hospital staff then called police, claiming he pushed a senior doctor who attempted to prevent him returning to his daughter’s bedside.

Sounds like they tried to prevent him from leaving the meeting room......
 
awaybreaktoday said:
Why wasn't the hospital staff trying to prevent him leaving a room arrested for false imprisonment - False imprisonment is the only crime i see being commited in this case:

False imprisonment occurs when a person intentionally restricts another person’s movement within any area without legal authority, justification, or the restrained person's permission.[1] Actual physical restraint is not necessary for false imprisonment to occur. A false imprisonment claim may be made based upon private acts, or upon wrongful governmental detention. For detention by the police, proof of false imprisonment provides a basis to obtain a writ of habeas corpus.[2]

Under common law, false imprisonment is both a crime and a tort.
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It wouldn't be false imprisonment if the staff member used reasonable force to prevent a breach of the peace, which may be the case.
 
Following these events, the NHS trust applied to the High Court for permission to take Zainab off the ventilator, but on September 16, just three days before the hearing was due to start, Zainab died.
 
Burnsy2023 said:
So, if you were in the Police's shoes, what do you think they should've done differently?
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Junglist said:
It's tough and I'm very glad I'd never have to make such an important call either way.
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I have no idea what to do in that situation as I'm not a trained professional when it comes to defusing a situation so I wont pretend that I know exactly what should've went on. But from a human perspective I'd probably be able to identify that someone in that state wont be thinking rationally and they're probably highly stressed.

We're all different but I don't think if I was the staff member who got shoved that I'd be feeling threatened if someone pushed me out of the way to go to their daughters bedside. Of course in the legal sense of the word, he was assaulted, that much is fact. But looking at the larger picture being shoved to me isn't that bad when all things are taken into consideration.

If he was scrapping in the hospital foyer then I'd be a lot less sympathetic towards him.
 
Junglist said:
I have no idea what to do in that situation as I'm not a trained professional when it comes to defusing a situation so I wont pretend that I know exactly what should've went on.
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You do realise that police don't get training for situations like this either?

If the staff member made a complaint, it might be that the father was going to be arrested for it to safeguard the staff and that's why they wanted to talk to him away from his daughter. At that point, he was refusing to move. So how do you effect an arrest in those situations without force being used?
 
Mr Abbasi, a respiratory expert who works at a different hospital, stormed out of the meeting but hospital staff then called police, claiming he pushed a senior doctor who attempted to prevent him returning to his daughter’s bedside. Half an hour later, four police officers and two security guards gathered at Zainab’s bedside where the devastated Abbasis and one of their sons were quietly comforting her.

If the above is true the hospital can go **** ** ****. You must be mentally insane if you think you could keep me from being beside my dieing daughter.....
 
awaybreaktoday said:
Mr Abbasi, a respiratory expert who works at a different hospital, stormed out of the meeting but hospital staff then called police, claiming he pushed a senior doctor who attempted to prevent him returning to his daughter’s bedside. Half an hour later, four police officers and two security guards gathered at Zainab’s bedside where the devastated Abbasis and one of their sons were quietly comforting her.

If the above is true the hospital can go **** ** ****. You must be mentally insane if you think you could keep me from being beside my dieing daughter.....
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My experience says that there's always more to it than is on the news.
 
Also the police had the audacity to accuse them of kicking, biting, and spitting when from their own body cam none of that occurred.... Looks to me hospital and police making stuff up to justify their actions.
 
awaybreaktoday said:
Mr Abbasi, a respiratory expert who works at a different hospital, stormed out of the meeting but hospital staff then called police, claiming he pushed a senior doctor who attempted to prevent him returning to his daughter’s bedside. Half an hour later, four police officers and two security guards gathered at Zainab’s bedside where the devastated Abbasis and one of their sons were quietly comforting her.

If the above is true the hospital can go **** ** ****. You must be mentally insane if you think you could keep me from being beside my dieing daughter.....
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Rashid’s arrest was the last of many flashpoints with clinicians during the final years of Zainab’s life. He was arrested in February 2019 at another hospital after it was claimed he had refused to leave his daughter’s ward and was ‘agitated’. He was later de-arrested due to concerns over his health.

The couple were also investigated by social services and police following allegations that they were ‘obstructing medical access to Zainab’.

This included claims they had changed their daughter’s medication, given her a drug that had not been prescribed and given her too much oxygen at home.
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Sounds like a nightmare patient family to deal with tbh. They may be qualified clinicians, but if they're screwing around with medications behind the backs of their daughter's actual physicians they're insane.
 
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