Nationwide calls time on the Bank of Mum & Dad.

[MichaelAwkward]

I get hammered into the ground on tax payments.

Please don't tell me you're one of those people who think they're going to be taxed at 45% of their entire earnings?

 

[stockhausen]

How are they comparable? Most people don't have an option of who they rent from as the majority of housing stock available to them is privately owned. . . .

Yes, I agree with that.

. . .
Flip it around - if there was only private medicine and private dental treatment - what do you think would happen to prices? . . .

We are well on the way to having only private medicine already and that will inevitably become more marked when American suppliers are given free rein. To all practical purposes we are in the position where we already have only private dental treatment.

In answer to your question, medical and dental treatment will become more expensive and a decent service will be denied to many - just like housing.

. . . We need more council houses to increase supply and push rents down.

You definitely will get no argument from me on that front - the evil people who sold off the council housing stock and didn't replace it should burn in hell.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

A ban on BTL and reintroduction of the Fair Rents Act would do wonders for the housing market. Thousands would be able to save and afford their own home

Granted that will be because of thousands of repossesions for failed mortgage repayments but swings and roundabouts

People can afford to buy homes no problem.

The issue is people aren't willing to compromise on anything.

I can show you homes for £20k.

But people would rather rent and live in something they cannot afford to buy. They blame rent for this. Truth is they could rent somewhere cheaper, they could move in as a lodger or get a lodger themselves. They could live with parents or ask their friends and family if they can stay with them and pay some rent to cover their costs and the nuisance.

There are plenty of things people can do. Earn more money either by better job or second job.

People aren't willing to sacrifice anything and they want everything. Some people need to get a grip. Especially those complaining about London House prices.

Don't like them then move somewhere else. All these asylum seekers coming here are willing to do whatever it takes. The moaners could do with their attitude.

Nothing wrong with buy to let. Buy to let has been hammered into the ground over the past 6 years. The good days are over. It doesn't need more tax or pressure put upon it.

Landlords make bugger all from it now. Controlling rent would cripple the whole industry. Only the elite, super rich would be able to turn a profit. The last thing you want is mass amounts of private property in less landlords hands. Competition is a good thing.

What you want to do would end up with an amazon taking over the rental market. That isn't good for anyone.

 

[stockhausen]

. . .
I can show you homes for £20k.
. . .
Some people need to get a grip. Especially those complaining about London House prices.
. . .

Based on what I have heard from people who live in London, you need to get a grip on reality pal

BTL is unquestionably the dirty face of greed.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Based on what I have heard from people who live in London, you need to get a grip on reality pal

BTL is unquestionably the dirty face of greed.

If they don't earn enough money to buy in London then move elsewhere.

We live in a capitalist country and being a landlord is nothing to do with greed.

Maybe you should speak to an actual landlord or try and become one. You will soon realise its not all roses and caviar with champagne.

It's amazing how people who have only ever seen one side of the coin think they are experts on the subject.

Affordable homes are out there. Problem is people want to live where they cannot afford.

Does that mean you should have a cap on car lease prices so I can lease a ferrari?

 

[StriderX]

rds make bugger all from it now. Controlling rent would cripple the whole industry. Only the elite, super rich would be able to turn a profit. The last thing you want is mass amounts of private property in less landlords hands. Competition is a good thing.

What you want to do would end up with an amazon taking over the rental market. That isn't good for anyone.

Rent-seeking adds quite literally zero productive value to the economy, competition is entirely irrelevant.

 

[stockhausen]

If they don't earn enough money to buy in London then move elsewhere.
. . .

As I said, you want to get a grip on reality pal. If you buy and rent out property you may be able to choose where you live, not all of us have that luxury - we live where there are jobs in the businesses for which we have the skills.

. . . We live in a capitalist country and being a landlord is nothing to do with greed. . . .

Indeed we do and BTL has everything to do with greed.

. . . Affordable homes are out there. . . .

Yeah, right - somewhere.

. . . Problem is people want to live where they cannot afford. . . .

No, people have to live where the jobs are.


ps - Ferraris are for Landlords nowadays rather than for City Spivs.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

You're really defending rentier capitalism?

Rent adds quite literally zero productive value to the economy, competition is entirely irrelevant.

Really?

So all those agents, all those contractors who have to put in new carpets every time a tenant leaves. New cookers every time a tenant leaves, etc. All the broken things that need replacing, none of that helps the economy?

None of the tax on the rent helps the economy either? Most landlords are taxed in the highest bracket. So they hardly see much of the actual rent money.

Again its people who aren't landlords who are commenting and acting like experts on the subject.

Do you know you have to in scotland apply and pay to become a landlord with each council you have a property within? You then have to pay more money to each council to register each property.

You then also have to adhere to all the rules and regulations they set out.

I know its not like that in England so I can't comment on how it works down there but being a landlord is not an easy life as some make it out to be. It's why we normally have to pay agents to do a lot for us. They take a percentage of around 15% tax man takes 40-45%. You also lose a percentage on repairs, maintenance, insurance and all the time and hassle, surveys and certificates which need to be done regularly.

Maybe become a landlord and see for yourself. It's not worth it anymore unless you can buy the property outright. They have gotten rid of all the tax breaks.

 

[Fusion]

Being a landlord is still “worth it”, because it’s profitable, despite expenses and tax. Cash, bonds and many shares at the moment earn little, but you can still get decent yields on property. Rental property in my area is in very short supply, whereas there are quite a few available to buy.

You could buy a place for £75k in my area and let it for £475/month, that’s 7.6% gross. City centre flats can yield even more, though Covid may have affected the market there. Yes, you have taxes and expenses, but you do for shares also. Many people don’t want the complexity of the stock market, they just see that people need housing, there’s a shortage of it and therefore an opportunity to profit.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Being a landlord is still “worth it”, because it’s profitable, despite expenses and tax. Cash, bonds and many shares at the moment earn little, but you can still get decent yields on property. Rental property in my area is in very short supply, whereas there are quite a few available to buy.

You could buy a place for £75k in my area and let it for £475/month, that’s 7.6% gross. City centre flats can yield even more, though Covid may have affected the market there. Yes, you have taxes and expenses, but you do for shares also. Many people don’t want the complexity of the stock market, they just see that people need housing, there’s a shortage of it and therefore an opportunity to profit.

7.6% gross doesn't tell the full story its more like 1-2% net. The real money is made from the increase in the value of the property which is only realised when you sell it.

Thats if you have good tenants who pay in full on time and all properties are let out all year round . Which rarely happens if you have multiple properties.

Again you aren't looking at the full picture. Legal costs to evict someone, etc.

That's why it's only profitable if you don't have a mortgage. If there is a mortgage you don't make anything until you sell and there is no guarantee these day's prices will go up. With this incoming recession prices are going to fall massively.

 

[MikeTheNative]

Unless you already have a lot of capital to begin with, BTL is usually not really worth it at the moment. Currently it's just a long term investment in property price.

 

[Stu999]

People can afford to buy homes no problem.

The issue is people aren't willing to compromise on anything.

I can show you homes for £20k.

I too like living next to drug dealers in Stabsville, where there are no jobs.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

BTL used to be a double win, tax efficient so income normally for most exceeded costs by a decent amount
Then add on top the house value increasing

The tax loopholes are now closed so the only main benefit is the hose price changes although it seems you can still make money if you have access to a good mortgage.
The places near me rent out at around 125-150% of what the mortgage payments would be, assuming you could borrow 100% at 90% rates. (Its the only fair comparison since if your investing capital you have to consider the returns elsewhere that have been forgone)

BTL is now functioning much more like a normal investment as opposed to generating liquid cash income.

It was almost a licence to print money before now it requires far more control over the income/expenditure.

Interest rate will go up its inevitable, where they will go and how high is impossible to say. Anyone who thinks they know is a fool or a liar.

Would I rather buy a house for less but with high rates, or a house for far more but with very low rates, well the first is best. You can via over payment have a relatively significant impact on your payments.
My first mortgage monthly payments the interest was something like 70% of the amount I was repaying. And of course high rates can come down, bottom rates can only go up.

House prices are most affect by supply and demand, then legislation (all the things like efficiency cost).

The other consideration mortgage paying house owners forget is that they are not a massive majority. Whilst it would cause hardship for them to pay higher rates as far as the economy goes there are a load of others who benefit from higher rates who have been suffering low income due to low rates. The impact from rates isn't a thing where its good for all for them to be low or high, as they move either direction there are winners. (just a warning for those who think the government (well the BOE) wouldn't put rates up as people with big mortgages couldn't pay)

 

[IGBT]

Quoted from my "completion of account";









All a bit crazy, but hey - it's done now and I have a home of my own

When did you buy your home?

 

[PermaChanged]

When did you buy your home?

22nd August 2019

 

[AiiR]

People can afford to buy homes no problem.

The issue is people aren't willing to compromise on anything.

I can show you homes for £20k.

But people would rather rent and live in something they cannot afford to buy. They blame rent for this. Truth is they could rent somewhere cheaper, they could move in as a lodger or get a lodger themselves. They could live with parents or ask their friends and family if they can stay with them and pay some rent to cover their costs and the nuisance.

There are plenty of things people can do. Earn more money either by better job or second job.

People aren't willing to sacrifice anything and they want everything. Some people need to get a grip. Especially those complaining about London House prices.

Don't like them then move somewhere else. All these asylum seekers coming here are willing to do whatever it takes. The moaners could do with their attitude.

Nothing wrong with buy to let. Buy to let has been hammered into the ground over the past 6 years. The good days are over. It doesn't need more tax or pressure put upon it.

Landlords make bugger all from it now. Controlling rent would cripple the whole industry. Only the elite, super rich would be able to turn a profit. The last thing you want is mass amounts of private property in less landlords hands. Competition is a good thing.

What you want to do would end up with an amazon taking over the rental market. That isn't good for anyone.

Sheltered much?

 

[Woden]

Really?

So all those agents, all those contractors who have to put in new carpets every time a tenant leaves. New cookers every time a tenant leaves, etc. All the broken things that need replacing, none of that helps the economy?

None of the tax on the rent helps the economy either? Most landlords are taxed in the highest bracket. So they hardly see much of the actual rent money.

Again its people who aren't landlords who are commenting and acting like experts on the subject.

Do you know you have to in scotland apply and pay to become a landlord with each council you have a property within? You then have to pay more money to each council to register each property.

You then also have to adhere to all the rules and regulations they set out.

I know its not like that in England so I can't comment on how it works down there but being a landlord is not an easy life as some make it out to be. It's why we normally have to pay agents to do a lot for us. They take a percentage of around 15% tax man takes 40-45%. You also lose a percentage on repairs, maintenance, insurance and all the time and hassle, surveys and certificates which need to be done regularly.

Maybe become a landlord and see for yourself. It's not worth it anymore unless you can buy the property outright. They have gotten rid of all the tax breaks.

You absolutely cannot show me a home for £20k anywhere near where I work. Or anywhere near liveable.

Cheaper homes are further from work, and conveniences, that's why they are cheaper. You will lose any saving you make paying for the additional transport. Not to mention the time lost in the extra traveling.

Carpets, repairs, maintenance. They still happen on owned homes. You don't buy a house then never change the carpet. Never repair a drain.

BTL is absolutely worth it or it wouldn't still be happening.

I'm sorry you don't like the work, but your providing a basic human requirement. It's not even just a right. Humans need shelter to live, so yes, it absolutely needs to be heavily regulated. And even know not nearly enough it's done to protect the nation's poorest from the all too common rogue landlords that give good ones like you a bad name.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

None of the tax on the rent helps the economy either? Most landlords are taxed in the highest bracket. So they hardly see much of the actual rent money.

Hang on a minute, I thought you said landlords don't make a lot of money? Make your mind up.

You also lose a percentage on repairs, maintenance, insurance and all the time and hassle, surveys and certificates which need to be done regularly.

Repairs, maintainence and insurance can be offset against tax liabilities, so it doesn't really affect profitability.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Hang on a minute, I thought you said landlords don't make a lot of money? make your mind up.

They tend to have other sources of income.

Okay let's say I earn £50k a year from my day job.

I then have income from the property taxed at 40%.

After all how would I be able to afford a buy to let property if I do t have an income?

So let's say I buy a flat for £80k. It brings me in £600 a month rent. Minus 55% for agent and tax. Minus 20% for other costs like surveys, fire certificates, insurance, etc. I now have £150 a month coming in for the £80k investment.

If you have a mortgage and interest to pay then that £150 wouldn't cover it. So no you don't make any money from the actual rent side of things. We'll you don't see a huge wad of cash in your bank account every month.

 

[MissChief]

I have no real issue with a Landlord who inherited his Granny’s flat or owned a flat before getting married and now rents it out. These are ‘accidental landlords’. What I do have issue with are the landlord that own a dozen or more homes, all on BTL and consider it a ‘job’. It’s not a job, it’s taking advantage of people. Then to complain about lost income when suddenly people couldn’t pay their rent. Sounds like you need to get a job mate.