Nationwide calls time on the Bank of Mum & Dad.

[Pudney]

So let's say I buy a flat for £80k. It brings me in £600 a month rent. Minus 55% for agent and tax. Minus 20% for other costs like surveys, fire certificates, insurance, etc. I now have £150 a month coming in for the £80k investment.

If you have a mortgage and interest to pay then that £150 wouldn't cover it. So no you don't make any money from the actual rent side of things. We'll you don't see a huge wad of cash in your bank account every month.

Your numbers look off, £600 per month is easily enough to turn a profit. One of the important mistakes you're making is applying tax to gross income rather than net profit.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

I have no real issue with a Landlord who inherited his Granny’s flat or owned a flat before getting married and now rents it out. These are ‘accidental landlords’. What I do have issue with are the landlord that own a dozen or more homes, all on BTL and consider it a ‘job’. It’s not a job, it’s taking advantage of people. Then to complain about lost income when suddenly people couldn’t pay their rent. Sounds like you need to get a job mate.

No such thing as an accidental landlord.

You have to register to become one and all the hassle along with it.

If I inherit a property I can sell it. Making a choice to rent it out is making the choice to be a landlord. It isn't an accident at all.

It's always renters who have an issue with landlords. They blame them for their own circumstances. It's amazing how they will never foot any of the blame on their own door.

I mean if you aren't saving for a deposit to buy your own place then you will never have your own place.

Rent somewhere cheaper, like I said before it takes compromise, sacrifices and commitment. It's easy to blame others though.

If you stayed with parents for a year and stuck 90% of the rent in a savings account your deposit wouldn't take long to get together.

If you and your parents have an issue with that then that's your own relationship. I live in my own home and if I wanted to I could sell up and move back in with them. I could then go out and buy a lambo with the equity.

There's plenty of decisions that could be made. There is a guy in my street who lives with his parents. He has a new £40k car every 2 years however he doesn't have a pot to poss in. You can see that his decisions are poor ones. He will also be blaming landlords in 10 years time.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Your numbers look off, £600 per month is easily enough to turn a profit. One of the important mistakes you're making is applying tax to gross income rather than net profit.

There isn't a lot of allowable expenses any more.

Before mortgage interest was an allowable expense now it isn't.

That's a huge amount now that is taxable.

 

[stockhausen]

. . .
It's always renters who have an issue with landlords. They blame them for their own circumstances. It's amazing how they will never foot any of the blame on their own door.
. . .

Renters always have an issue with Landlords - quite so, so long as they are getting the rent, Landlords simply don't care.

Some (not all) Landlords are absolute charlatans, they don't maintain the property and if the tenant complains, the Landlord gives them notice to quit and finds some other sucker who they can milk for a while.

You seem to have a preoccupation with flash cars, that perhaps indicates where your interests and motivations lie?

 

[Surveyor]

No such thing as an accidental landlord.

You have to register to become one and all the hassle along with it.

Registration is required in Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales.

In England there's no national scheme and registration is only required in council areas where a scheme has been implemented.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Renters always have an issue with Landlords - quite so, so long as they are getting the rent, Landlords simply don't care.

Some (not all) Landlords are absolute charlatans, they don't maintain the property and if the tenant complains, the Landlord gives them notice to quit and finds some other sucker who they can milk for a while.

You seem to have a preoccupation with flash cars, that perhaps indicates where your interests and motivations lie?

There are good and bad people in every profession.

For every good doctor there is a bad one.

For every good lawyer there is a bad one.

And for every good landlord there is a bad one.

You cannot say that it's any different in any other profession.

For every good photographer there are plenty of bad ones on this very forum.

I like Flash cars who doesn't? Still I'm at a point where I'm still about long term financial security. I'm thinking of selling both cars and just buying one cheap one to run for 2 years. Save and then splurge on something exciting again. I just don't think that the wife could handle going from 2 nice cars to a cheap run around for 2 years.

We have 3 massive projects and many smaller projects in our home. So I was hoping to do them and be comfortable rather than be squeezed.

I have an agent who fixes any issue immediately so long as the repair bill is below £1000. For anything bigger than that he has to phone me. I'd like to think I'm doing it right but no doubt there will be things I can do better.

 

[Jonny ///M]

Got caught by this when looking for a mortgage last week.

We pay £500 per month rent for a 2 bed terraced house bought for £85k as a buy to let.

Mortgage in principal was based on £120k, £6k from us and £6k gifted from parents as a 10% deposit. The mortgage was £507pm so we have shown we can save a deposit whilst saving and paying off a loan at £211pm which has 3 years left.

We haven't really tried overly hard to save, still enjoy good dinners and beers rather than living on beans on toast.

We can either keep saving as is and with the gifts get into 85% LTV where the 25% cap for gifts doesn't apply. House prices certainly haven't fallen here as yet, maybe its still to come once people are off furlough and made redundant.

 

[stockhausen]

There are good and bad people in every profession.
For every good doctor there is a bad one.
For every good lawyer there is a bad one.
And for every good landlord there is a bad one.

You cannot say that it's any different in any other profession. . . .

Both Doctors and Lawyers go through years of intensive relevant training, Landlords do not.
Both Doctors and Lawyers are controlled (to a greater or lesser degree) by Professional bodies tasked with ensuring their Professionalism, Landlords are not.

I have never before heard of being a Landlord described as being a member of a "Profession"

 

[theone8181]

Both Doctors and Lawyers go through years of intensive relevant training, Landlords do not.
Both Doctors and Lawyers are controlled (to a greater or lesser degree) by Professional bodies tasked with ensuring their Professionalism, Landlords are not.

I have never before heard of being a Landlord described as being a member of a "Profession"

I thought proffesion was different to professional. With proffesion basically meaning what's you job and a professional basically being a job that requires a degree.

 

[Pudney]

There isn't a lot of allowable expenses any more.

Before mortgage interest was an allowable expense now it isn't.

That's a huge amount now that is taxable.

There a loads of expenses that are allowable.

Mortgage interest isn't a deductible expense, but it is a tax reducer making net tax either 0%/20%/25% depending on your tax rate.

 

[stockhausen]

I thought proffesion was different to professional. With proffesion basically meaning what's you job and a professional basically being a job that requires a degree.

I would suggest that your understanding is misguided. I am perfectly happy with Wikipedia's:

"A profession is an occupation founded upon specialized educational training."​

However, I am equally happy to go along with the Cambridge Dictionary's:

"Any type of work that needs special training or a particular skill . . ."​

I don't consider being a Buy To Let Landlord to be a Profession; it is not like being a Gas Fitter, a Plumber or a Bricklayer which might be nearer to qualifying as a Profession.

 

[413x]

GPs are useless.

I just use YouTube now for most of my medical stuff. Just go in, "I've got this, can you get me a prescription" job done.

There are a few good ones. But more bad than good in my experience.

 

[stockhausen]

GPs are useless. . . .

Yeah, right, OK.

However, can GPs get you a mortgage at good rates, despite the involvement of Mummy and Daddy, that is the question?


You can console yourself that as online consultations become more typical you will be able to speak to someone in the Far East / Russia / China who will diagnose your condition and send you to their local "Agent" who will supply you with some useless placebo
- unless -
You can afford to consult a US based online diagnostician who will also send you to their local "Agent" who will supply you with some useless placebo - at a huge cost.

I can just imagine the sequence:

Automated online Consultant: Waddya you wan?
You: I'm sick, really sick
Automated online Consultant: Yeah? Waddya you wan? I got Morphine, you wan enuff to kill yosel or just to chill?
You: I'm sick, really really sick, I just want to feel better
Automated online Consultant: You wastin my time! Why you wastin my time? Get a life!

Click.​

 

[413x]

Yeah, right, OK.

However, can GPs get you a mortgage at good rates, despite the involvement of Mummy and Daddy, that is the question?


You can console yourself that as online consultations become more typical you will be able to speak to someone in the Far East / Russia / China who will diagnose your condition and send you to their local "Agent" who will supply you with some useless placebo
- unless -
You can afford to consult a US based online diagnostician who will also send you to their local "Agent" who will supply you with some useless placebo - at a huge cost.

I can just imagine the sequence:

Automated online Consultant: Waddya you wan?
You: I'm sick, really sick
Automated online Consultant: Yeah? Waddya you wan? I got Morphine, you wan enuff to kill yosel or just to chill?
You: I'm sick, really really sick, I just want to feel better
Automated online Consultant: You wastin my time! Why you wastin my time? Get a life!

Click.​

Id say of the last 10 GPs I've seen 2 have been good.
I remember their names and will want longer for an appointment with those 2.

More than one occasion I've had to see 3 and even 4 GPs (no exaggeration) before getting correct treatment.
Id rather answer questions from an AI.

 

[neil_g]

Pmsl @ landlords replacing carpets and ovens at each new tenancy.

Been renting various properties for about 20 years now, extremely rare to get either of those unless it's newly renovated for btl.

Normally it's the exiting tenants responsibility to get carpets professionally cleaned (and provide proof) and clean things like the oven.

 

[stockhausen]

Pmsl @ landlords replacing carpets and ovens at each new tenancy.

Been renting various properties for about 20 years now, extremely rare to get either of those unless it's newly renovated for btl.

Normally it's the exiting tenants responsibility to get carpets professionally cleaned (and provide proof) and clean things like the oven.

Absolutely.

In my experience, most Landlords go to town at the end of a Tenancy, trying to find any possible excuse to withhold all or most of the deposit.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Pmsl @ landlords replacing carpets and ovens at each new tenancy.

Been renting various properties for about 20 years now, extremely rare to get either of those unless it's newly renovated for btl.

Normally it's the exiting tenants responsibility to get carpets professionally cleaned (and provide proof) and clean things like the oven.

I'm guessing we are both in different market segments. Properties worth £80k to £120k to buy.


The type of person that rents these doesn't tend to clean anything.

I find lower end properties are much more hassle but they also tend to increase in value the most over time.

Moving into the higher end would be putting more eggs into 1 basket but it would be a lot less hassle. It is something worth considering though.

 

[Resident]

What was / is the "Fair Rents Act"?

I agree entirely about Buy To Let but in reality, it is just another form of investment in a free market - where does one stop?
What about private medicine, private dental treatment?

Sorry it took so long, been uber busy lately.

Fair Rent Act was legislation that was essentially a control by local authorities to prevent unscrupolous landlands from raising rents on properties to price out the current tenants. Tenants could apply to the LA to mediate any rent increases sought by the LL. Various factors including area, house value & condition, local amenties etc were used by the LA.

For example if the tenant was paying 80/week and the LL now wants 100/week the LA would look at it and they may determine it's not worth 100/week given the various factors but is worth 87.50/week. The LA would then set that as the maximum chargable rent.

Councils still use a form of the act calculations for social housing which is why social housing is significantly cheaper than private landlord. In my area the typical PLL house is around £150/week however the typical social housing of similar quality and size is around 90/week.