NVIDIA ‘Ampere’ 8nm Graphics Cards

EastCoastHandle · 2 Sep 2020 at 02:13

Grim5 said:
A nvidia rep jumped on reddit earlier today and posted a message saying he believed that the difference between pcie3x16 and pcie4x16 is only a few percent on a RTX3090.

You do realize that "a few percent" is pretty high when there is typically 0 difference?
That's something called "an admission of guilt". In other words pcie3 will impact performance when it comes to the card doing what it needs to do...rt, open world, next gen gaming...

IE:
Q: Will I need pcie4 for the 3080?
A: You can still use pcie3 the difference will "only" be a few percent. "wink-wink"

Legend · 2 Sep 2020 at 02:14

Gerard said:
Mad to think a couple of months ago people were buying cards like the 2080ti strix for 1400-1500£. Now they're worth maybe 350 tops assuming the 3070 is actually faster across the board and not just in dlss and rt situations.

I think people would rather use them as a paper weight or a doorstop than let them go for that price.

At that rate people will be trying to say a 2070 is worth a tenner. There's a point where these values become a bit absurd. And as you suggest, I doubt anyone will be selling a 2080Ti for £300, purely on principle. It's still a very capable card after all. Heck, a 980Ti still fetches £100.

FloatingPoint · 2 Sep 2020 at 02:14

Perfect_Chaos said:
Has there been any extra info about cards with higher VRAM?

Only through inference that the 256bit Geforce usually has a Quadro equivalent, prior to volta.

Grim5 · 2 Sep 2020 at 02:16

EastCoastHandle said:
You do realize that "a few percent" is pretty high when there is typically 0 difference?
That's something called "an admission of guilt". In other words pcie3 will impact performance when it comes to the card doing what it needs to do...rt, open world, next gen gaming...

IE:
Q: Will I need pcie4 for the 3080?
A: You can still use pcie3 the difference will "only" be a few percent. "wink-wink"

Before I carry on, I would like to mention that today Nvidia benchmarks were done using a pcie3 CPU - so if pcie4 is faster, it means these cards are even faster than Nvidia let on today.

Of course there are still other system issues Intel owners can run into. if the 3090 is fully saturating pcie3x16 and you have a Nvme drive that us streaming data with RTX I/O / DirectML, then there are systems out there that can theoretically run out of lanes and force the GPU back down to x8. I know my Z390 system I had previously had this exact same issue where it cannot support a x16 GPU and NVME drive with both running full tilt and it would force the GPU into x8.

So when you look at it in isolation, maybe pcie3x16 is ok for a 3090 but wheen you consider the suite of features and your system as a whole, then pcie4 is recommended to avoid any bottlenecks

FloatingPoint · 2 Sep 2020 at 02:16

EastCoastHandle said:
You do realize that "a few percent" is pretty high when there is typically 0 difference?
That's something called "an admission of guilt". In other words pcie3 will impact performance when it comes to the card doing what it needs to do...rt, open world, next gen gaming...

IE:
Q: Will I need pcie4 for the 3080?
A: You can still use pcie3 the difference will "only" be a few percent. "wink-wink"

Will you think you need a new CPU if installing a new RTX that blows hot air at it though?

Gerard · 2 Sep 2020 at 02:17

Legend said:
Come on, let's be real. At this rate people will be trying to say a 1070 is worth a tenner.

Well why would anyone pay £600 for a second hand 2080ti if they can buy a new, faster card with warranty for much cheaper,? Or they can go the extra 50 and get a card thats a large chunk faster than the ti?

Thats assuming of course the 3070 is actually faster across the board and not just in specific situations. The 3080 in the df video was leaving the 2080ti standing.

Legend · 2 Sep 2020 at 02:18

Gerard said:
Well why would anyone pay £600 for a second hand 2080ti if they can buy a new, faster card with warranty for much cheaper,? Or they can go thr extra 50 and get a card thats a large chunk faster than the ti?

Not £600 but £300? No. For a start, no one is going to sell one at that, irrespective of what someone might want to pay. As I mention, even a 980Ti has a second hand value of around £100.

Gerard · 2 Sep 2020 at 02:21

Legend said:
Not £600 but £300? No. For a start, no one is going to sell one at that, irrespective of what someone might want to pay. As I mention, even a 980Ti has a second hand value of around £100.

And when these cards are available even that will lose value as faster cards across the board get sold and slower cards go for less.

EastCoastHandle · 2 Sep 2020 at 02:22

FloatingPoint said:
Will you think you need a new CPU if installing a new RTX that blows hot air at it though?

A new CPU? IMO, yes. However, we will need to see follow up reviews to determine how much of performance hit the 3080 has under the following conditions:
-Intel CPU using PCIe 3.0 vs AMD CPU using PCIe 4.0

Until then we are only speculating on how much performance hit there is based on what we know so far. Nvidia rep admitted "a few percentage". So yes, there is a bottleneck.
But the short answer is if you have a quad core cpu I wouldn't recommend buying Ampere/RDNA 2 unless you do a full PC upgrade.

FloatingPoint · 2 Sep 2020 at 02:25

EastCoastHandle said:
A new CPU? IMO, yes. However, we will need to see follow up reviews to determine how much of performance hit the 3080 has under the following conditions:
-Intel CPU using PCIe 3.0 vs AMD CPU using PCIe 4.0

Until then we are only speculating on how much performance hit there is based on what we know so far. Nvidia rep admitted "a few percentage". So yes, there is a bottleneck.
But the short answer is if you have a quad core cpu I wouldn't recommend buying Ampere/RDNA 2 unless you do a full PC upgrade.

I'm purely looking at the provided justification and visualisation of heat exchange in the new cards, which could cause people to unjustly think they have a CPU bottleneck purely from induced thermal throttling...

JohnG7 · 2 Sep 2020 at 02:27

EastCoastHandle said:
A new CPU? IMO, yes. However, we will need to see follow up reviews to determine how much of performance hit the 3080 has under the following conditions:
-Intel CPU using PCIe 3.0 vs AMD CPU using PCIe 4.0

Until then we are only speculating on how much performance hit there is based on what we know so far. Nvidia rep admitted "a few percentage". So yes, there is a bottleneck.
But the short answer is if you have a quad core cpu I wouldn't recommend buying Ampere/RDNA 2 unless you do a full PC upgrade.

I think he meant a new CPU cooler

Twinz · 2 Sep 2020 at 02:29

aoaaron said:
Is 3080 worth it to upgrade a 2080?

That's basically what I'm doing. (Upgrading from a 1080Ti)

EastCoastHandle · 2 Sep 2020 at 02:31

FloatingPoint said:
I'm purely looking at the provided justification and visualisation of heat exchange in the new cards, which could cause people to unjustly think they have a CPU bottleneck purely from induced thermal throttling...

In that case watercooling the CPU is the only way to avoid that.
-CPU waterblock
-360 rad
-res.
-tubing
-high pressure fans with a fan controller
Would be a good start.

FloatingPoint · 2 Sep 2020 at 02:33

EastCoastHandle said:
In that case watercooling the CPU is the only way to avoid that.
-CPU waterblock
-360 rad
-high pressure fans with a fan controller
Would be a good start.

Water should be no where near a computer in my opinion. Definitely not inside it.

Bindlestiff · 2 Sep 2020 at 02:38

FloatingPoint said:
Water should be no where near a computer in my opinion. Definitely not inside it.

I used to think that, then tried it. Completely changed my opinion. Although it is fiddly and I'd rather not do it again, I would if I needed to. It is a great option with a chance to express a little bit of personality onto the build over and above the usual options.

Legend · 2 Sep 2020 at 02:42

Gerard said:
And when these cards are available even that will lose value as faster cards across the board get sold and slower cards go for less.

There is a cap you know. The days of a £300 2080Ti are quite a ways to go yet. It'll happen of course, but not in a few weeks.

FloatingPoint · 2 Sep 2020 at 02:42

Bindlestiff said:
I used to think that, then tried it. Completely changed my opinion. Although it is fiddly and I'd rather not do it again, I would if I needed to. It is a great option with a chance to express a little bit of personality onto the build over and above the usual options.

Good for you, I'd definitely never do it, if new stuff can't run on air then it's no good. Like the G5's in 2005 just before Apple threw the towel in and saw the x86 light.

JohnG7 · 2 Sep 2020 at 02:42

There is really no need to WC today CPU's as the best air cooler are only going to get beat by a proper custom loop, but this GPU may dump too much heat into an air cooler.

No clue what they were thinking, should have simply went with a proper triple slot cooler as most 3rd party GPU's designs take up that internally 2.5-3 slots of space.

I think that is what they aimed to do when they showed of a new thicker radial fan years ago which sat at an angle a bit like a helicopter blades but seems to never materialised.

LeMson · 2 Sep 2020 at 02:42

Bindlestiff said:
It is a great option with a chance to express a little bit of personality onto the build

Bindlestiff · 2 Sep 2020 at 02:47

LeMson said:

Choice of tubing, colour of tubing, colour of liquid, fittings, placement of rads - all aesthetic choices that can set a build apart and round off the overall theme. If that isn't a goal in your build then that is all well and good. Different strokes for different folks and all that.