EV general discussion

jamoor said:
This guy's made a terrible video in the past.

In this video he just spouts a load of nonsense, I am not sure if he was paid to say it or he genuinely believes it. He fails to realise the the UK is increasingly reliant on renewable energy.
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Yeah that’s pretty lame but then since EVs popped up lifecycle analysis and fag packet carbon maths seems to be a new hobby instead of dogging...

The electric use for the oil lines that have large pumps forcing oil down the vast pipelines is ignored and yet enormous which makes any comparison at its very start irrelevant.

He should just stick some solar on his big barn and set a precedent rather than preaching set.
 
Haggisman said:
I can't see this working, what if you get stuck in traffic and miss your slot - how long do you then have to wait to charge if all other slots are booked?
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It was idling musing from me but:

The car knows, can shuffle a queue etc. It’s just software, my car does it with ETA and texts people if I’m delayed to tell of the delay. Don’t understand how a rational alternative is to build a glut of expensive so they are never at full utilisation.
 
Jonnycoupe said:
It was idling musing from me but:

The car knows, can shuffle a queue etc. It’s just software, my car does it with ETA and texts people if I’m delayed to tell of the delay. Don’t understand how a rational alternative is to build a glut of expensive so they are never at full utilisation.
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So someone else's slot gets pushed back and they have to wait instead?
 
Thought this was interesting


TLDW - 5% degradation after 7 years and 78,000km, that car seemed to have been treated well as not often supercharged and probably only charged to 80% most of the time but that's what the majority of people will be doing anyway i'd have thought so a good real world example.

Also interesting to think that since Tesla switched from 18650 cells in the S & X to the 2070's in the M3 and MY they could well fair even better over time.
 
jamoor said:
This guy's made a terrible video in the past.

In this video he just spouts a load of nonsense, I am not sure if he was paid to say it or he genuinely believes it. He fails to realise the the UK is increasingly reliant on renewable energy.
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Oh yes, agreed with those figures. I watched that at the time and thought the same thing. He is an intelligent guy so i was surprised to see a biased video like that. Separating it out, the 45e real world comparison to his previous EVs and general experience was a good one though and very relatable, i thought :) (no biased facts and figures in that one, just a real persons thoughts over using it as a family car and his thought process when living with and selecting a car to use for a certain trip).
 
sovietspybob said:
Thought this was interesting


TLDW - 5% degradation after 7 years and 78,000km, that car seemed to have been treated well as not often supercharged and probably only charged to 80% most of the time but that's what the majority of people will be doing anyway i'd have thought so a good real world example.

Also interesting to think that since Tesla switched from 18650 cells in the S & X to the 2070's in the M3 and MY they could well fair even better over time.
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The fact one cell is an 18650 and another is a 2170 doesn’t really make any difference to the longevity, those numbers only dictate the size of the cell. The size change was all about the packaging and the need to pack more energy into a smaller space.

The performance of the cell is dictated by the chemistry and these days both the model S/X and the 3/Y use the same chemistry despite using different sized cells. That wasn’t always the case though and I don’t remember when the change happened, for a long time the Mode 3 had the newer chemistry.
 
sovietspybob said:
Also interesting to think that since Tesla switched from 18650 cells in the S & X to the 2070's in the M3 and MY they could well fair even better over time.
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Musk's "battery day" seems to be rescheduled to 22Sep, so should find out what these new cells from CATL may offer such as a better density;
they do VW batteries too (different sauce though?) , but,
it would be interesting to know how Tesla's other partener Pan protects their IP, or do Tesla own it, and then use that to help in CATL development.
if the batteries go up from 260Whr/kg to 400 Musk discusses for airplanes (3-4years out), that could make the 80Kwhr BEV same weight at similar ICE,
enabling more high range smaller bevs too.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-for-electric-cars-and-the-grid-idUSKBN22Q1WC
etc.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
The fact one cell is an 18650 and another is a 2170 doesn’t really make any difference to the longevity, those numbers only dictate the size of the cell. The size change was all about the packaging and the need to pack more energy into a smaller space.

The performance of the cell is dictated by the chemistry and these days both the model S/X and the 3/Y use the same chemistry despite using different sized cells. That wasn’t always the case though and I don’t remember when the change happened, for a long time the Mode 3 had the newer chemistry.
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Ah fair enough i thought the newer cells were using a different chemistry, plus their size made them more optimised for better cooling therefore potentially increasing longevity.
 
jpaul said:
Musk's "battery day" seems to be rescheduled to 22Sep, so should find out what these new cells from CATL may offer such as a better density;
they do VW batteries too (different sauce though?) , but,
it would be interesting to know how Tesla's other partener Pan protects their IP, or do Tesla own it, and then use that to help in CATL development.
if the batteries go up from 260Whr/kg to 400 Musk discusses for airplanes (3-4years out), that could make the 80Kwhr BEV same weight at similar ICE,
enabling more high range smaller bevs too.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-for-electric-cars-and-the-grid-idUSKBN22Q1WC
etc.
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CATL are cited as a China model Y application with lower colbalt and cost - I don't think there's an expectation of more energy.
 
sovietspybob said:
Ah fair enough i thought the newer cells were using a different chemistry, plus their size made them more optimised for better cooling therefore potentially increasing longevity.
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The chemistry is changing all the time and the changes get applied to the various cells they use. So the point is still valid the newer the cell the more likely the chemistry will be better.

Biggest difference being CATL sourced batteries that are lower density but lower cost for that market.

I have the utils to check my Model 3 so I should do that later as I'm approaching 10K miles so I would expect some loss by now however small.
 
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There didn't seem to be any actual data on the relative CATL energy density, maybe they are significantly cheaper.

The Tesla CATL relationship seems pretty unclear , looks like they dont have access to the same patents Tesla/Panasonic,
and with fear of Chinese purloining technology , and, Tesla becoming unpopular(justifiably) with Trump, so, they will have to reverse engineer(something similar) themselves,
but, for the CATL factory is Germany, the other manufacturers using them, will want competitive technology, ASAP
Tesla’s Cobalt-Free Efforts Closely Watched by LG Chem, Samsung Ahead of Battery Day (is that voice synthesised)
 
ICDP said:
My entire premise is how are the car companies, government and utility companies going to entice more people to EV. Right now it's painfully slow progress and the choices the government is making are counterproductive.
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The past five years has seen the number of BEVs on the road grow from ~10,000 to 142,000, and the number of chargers grow from ~7,500 to ~34,000. Rapid charger numbers have increased 9x.

The difference is pretty incredible. Five years ago, I rarely saw another BEV. Now, I see them regularly. And back in 2015, venturing off the motorway network was difficult. Rapid chargers didn't tend to exist outside of motorway service stations, so you either needed to stay within range of the next services, or have charging available at your destination, or accept that you'd have to find a 7kW charger on the way back to the motorway. Now, distribution of rapid chargers outside of the motorway network is pretty good. Not perfect. But few areas of the country are now "no go" areas.

The problem with progress is it depends on so many things. There's no point selling hundreds of thousands of BEVs in a year if you can't install hundreds of thousands of home chargers. Or if the public charging infrastructure can't cope. Or if the grid can't cope. Progress is currently steady, increasing year-on-year, which is what's needed. An overnight change would be a disaster.
 
Fusion said:
Nearly 1 in 15 new cars sold in August were pure EV (from the latest SMMT data). I’d say that’s pretty good.
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With factories shut/limited capacity and people in UK happy to wait for Sept registration whilst a glut of EV cars landed on a boat to be delivered: I'm not sure it really represents any sort of trend.
 
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