EV general discussion

I’ve just done 1200 miles in 4 days in my Tesla which has been interesting. It’s the standard range Model 3 so approx 200 miles of motorway in the real world. This is our single family car. We rarely do more than 200 miles in a day so charge at home 99% of the time.

It’s really clear that the Tesla charging infrastructure is what makes this work for long trips. I just followed the navigation, charging where it suggested. Each time I just drove into a Supercharger, plugged in, had lunch / coffee then set off again.

Arriving at a very busy service area to find 16 120kw superchargers (8 in use), compared to 2 50kw Ecotricity chargers was eye opening.

There was one time where I was ready to go before the charging had finished - hopefully the new 250kw chargers will sort that out.

We really need motorway service areas to have loads of rapid chargers available. You need to know that you can pull into any services, plug in to a rapid charger without having to worry that there will be a queue or that it’s not working. Much in the way that you stop at any services without worrying whether they will have fossil fuel and working pumps.

Around towns we need service stations to have a mix of fossil fuel pumps and rapid chargers to cater for those that can’t charge at home.

It’s a chicken-and-egg situation - the rapid chargers need investment but that’s hard to justify until there’s lots of users. They users want to see the charging network in place before they go electric to avoid range anxiety issues.
 
Id like to see an app system where you can book 20min slots and then have confidence you will be able to actually charge when you arrive, that way you can optimise your route to manage charging plan.
 
Isn't the main problem with kitting out dozens and dozens of expensive super chargers everywhere that you're putting all your eggs in one basket that electric cars (batteries) are the answer?

When in reality, we all know batteries are crap. They are inefficient and not easily recyclable.

I see electric cars as 'mini disc' of the automotive industry. Better than CDs, but didn't last long in the end. We need that MP3 player moment. Which is yet to happen.......
 
No, electricity is electricity. Unless we needed to rewire the house for halogen, CFL or LED lightbulbs?

I hope that MP3 player will play your swan song...

I also do recognise batteries are more difficult to recycle than oil but I think the problem with that mechanism is not how the batteries are used.
 
Jonnycoupe - booking slots would be too much hassle I think for people.. they just need to be able to arrive and charge.

Shadowness - Batteries are massively efficient, can be reused several times then 100% recycled. They can be charged with 100% green electricity - they are a good solution, we just need better charging infrastructure.

I imagine the same situation occurred in the horse to car transition where hay was widely available and petrol was in far fewer locations.
 
So why are very few cars actually delivering the range they state? (yes traditional cars rarely do the mpg stated too)

Can these batteries really take being charged at super high rates regularly? How long until they are like a battery in a second hand laptop that barely keeps charge anymore?

So when every car is electric, can you really see chargers in every car park space, streets etc?

(btw I'm not being obtuse, genuine questions!)
 
The stated range is under perfect conditions, just like the petrol/diesel MPG figures. My car has an official range of 258 miles and it is possible to get that — but not at motorway speeds where 200 is more realistic.

Rapid charging is normally only something you would do on a long journey (e.g. I have done about 7000 miles in mine but only rapid-charged about 6 times). The cars have all sorts of tech to protect the battery health. The battery will last the lifetime of the car. These are not like laptop and phone batteries which are ageing after a year or two.

I can see there being 7kw fast chargers in most car parks (these are cheap to install, not like rapid chargers) as it’s a good place to charge if you can’t charge at home. (You’re leaving your car there, might as well charge it)
 
blun said:
Jonnycoupe - booking slots would be too much hassle I think for people.. they just need to be able to arrive and charge.

Shadowness - Batteries are massively efficient, can be reused several times then 100% recycled. They can be charged with 100% green electricity - they are a good solution, we just need better charging infrastructure.
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That's the point though, they might not be able to simply arrive and wait. I guess an in car navigation system could work neatly, defines the charge point and syncs to the charging network to grab a 'space'? Or atleast just tell you they were all presently in use and the car could atleast attempt an alternative location that presently shows as free.

interesting to see what will happen, easy enough for a Tesla with control of the cars and chargers but like most things much harder with multiple stakeholders.
 
Shadowness said:
So why are very few cars actually delivering the range they state? (yes traditional cars rarely do the mpg stated too)

Can these batteries really take being charged at super high rates regularly? How long until they are like a battery in a second hand laptop that barely keeps charge anymore?

So when every car is electric, can you really see chargers in every car park space, streets etc?

(btw I'm not being obtuse, genuine questions!)
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Don't confuse efficiency with the road load, EV will use more at higher speed due to the relative constant efficiency you see.

Roadload increase result in more consumption in a fairly linear fashion unlike an ICE car where most the waste heat is there and a subtle change to efficiency with higher road load doesnt make fuel consumption rise as dramatically - EV are just new and something we are not used to but they have the same standardised comparison tests for markets - WLTP is much better than NEDC (which China use hence wild range claims) and the USA EPA is reasonable but the OEMs also have an agreed factor they are allowed to apply to the brochure or 'sticker' range figure.

EV charging is really for home and maybe 10-20 per year charges away from home? Otherwise make charging finding a real chore, increase your running costs and beyond this early adopter phase and may present real barrier to 'replacing' typical' ICE car use. Tesla has the march with the network way beyond its customer useage but that is bound to taper away as more cars are sold.
 
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I found this very interesting and really relate to it. Helps that he happens to be my favourite YouTube presenter, and lives very near by so I get to see all my local roads and town on his drive around too.

The point he makes is spot on though. That X5 45e is a car which would work extremely well for us I think.
 
Jez said:

I found this very interesting and really relate to it. Helps that he happens to be my favourite YouTube presenter, and lives very near by so I get to see all my local roads and town on his drive around too.

The point he makes is spot on though. That X5 45e is a car which would work extremely well for us I think.
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Indeed Post #3999 of this very thread ;)
 
Definitely, I stumbled on it last night after watching the Gordon Murray interview where he went in one of his economical cars, a Jaguar Project 8. Harry of course used to own a mk1 Honda Insight :cool::p
 
Jonnycoupe said:
Or atleast just tell you they were all presently in use and the car could atleast attempt an alternative location that presently shows as free.

interesting to see what will happen, easy enough for a Tesla with control of the cars and chargers but like most things much harder with multiple stakeholders.
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Tesla does this now (you can see how many bays are free on the nav screen). I think some of the other charging networks do it too but it’d need to be exposed via API so that different car manufacturers can all consume it. I think the next version of iOS supports something like this in Apple Maps so it will come.

I do still think though we need enough charging spots so you don’t have to worry about it. (I must admit I have been worried when relying on superchargers that they would be busy but have never actually had to wait. I did get the last one once.)
 
Jez said:

I found this very interesting and really relate to it. Helps that he happens to be my favourite YouTube presenter, and lives very near by so I get to see all my local roads and town on his drive around too.

The point he makes is spot on though. That X5 45e is a car which would work extremely well for us I think.
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This guy's made a terrible video in the past.

In this video he just spouts a load of nonsense, I am not sure if he was paid to say it or he genuinely believes it. He fails to realise the the UK is increasingly reliant on renewable energy.
 
Jonnycoupe said:
Id like to see an app system where you can book 20min slots and then have confidence you will be able to actually charge when you arrive, that way you can optimise your route to manage charging plan.
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I can't see this working, what if you get stuck in traffic and miss your slot - how long do you then have to wait to charge if all other slots are booked?
 
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