EV general discussion

[Kenai]

I've seen plenty of 'positive attitude' that doesn't ultimately lead to a fixed car in the past, sometimes it's nice to be able to fall back to actually talking to someone face to face to resolve a problem.

Emails and phone calls are ok on relatively 'cheap' things you're buying from Amazon/OcUK and the like (I recently had OcUK CS via the forums which was fine for the item in question), not sure how comfortable i'd be when it's a £40,000 car though.

 

[WJA96]

I've seen plenty of 'positive attitude' that doesn't ultimately lead to a fixed car in the past, sometimes it's nice to be able to fall back to actually talking to someone face to face to resolve a problem.

Emails and phone calls are ok on relatively 'cheap' things you're buying from Amazon/OcUK and the like (I recently had OcUK CS via the forums which was fine for the item in question), not sure how comfortable i'd be when it's a £40,000 car though.

Try a £56,000 car! As I say. I’ve not yet had that point where they’ve not actually fixed it. And there are plenty of people on the Tesla forums where they’ve had “lemon” cars swapped out effectively without a quibble. I think we’re so used to awful customer service and we almost expect to have to fight to get something fixed that we just can’t accept that there could be another way.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

maintenance costs/service centres :

it will be interesting to see if polestar maintenance contract follows an ICE, or rather,Tesla leed; fleet purchasers obvously figure that into costs/acceptability of brands
moreover with the low volume of T cars in circulation+age the need for many dealership(2nd hand)/service facilities may not yet be necessary,
but, facilities may ultimately, ensure revenue+survival - a necessary evil (cheap remark : WJA96 did say they are creating a norwich service centre - why ?)

with r&d investement T is not making much profit, so they chose, judiciously, to invest in supercharger infrastructure too (albeit they are solid future investments) rather than dealerships, not needed during infancy.

with service centres in general there is probably some cross subsidy - the younger vehicles charges help ensure their availibility for older vehicles, maintaining 2nd hand value, symbiotically benefitting initial owner. , so maybe not taking the proverbial.

edit: lifetime ownership cost and the responsibility to recycle the batteries still has some ambiguity, like nuclear power stations ?

Its quite hard to find, I gave up, they do cover all servicing and repairs for the first three years or 31,250 miles (seems an odd amount but maybe its KMs based really)
Outside that some longer warranty on batteries and panels rusting etc

Couldn't find any specific details of costs or schedules but then that seems to be the modern way, was a nightmare with Audi as well (i think a lot of the time its because its dealer specific on cost), and schedules i think disappeared when the EU ruled that warranty would be maintained if manufacturer servicing is followed even if outside the dealer network.

 

[WJA96]

The handbook for the Polestar 2 can be found here

https://support.polestar.com/uk/polestar-2/2021/

and it's quite interesting. It clearly states what @Mercenary Keyboard Warrior stated in his post above that Polestar will contact the driver when the car needs service and that up to 31,250miles/50,000km the servicing will be covered by Polestar but after that it's a black hole of information. My own Tesla Model 3 is expected to do about 120,000 miles in the 4 years I have it and we're budgeting about £3000 for the extended warranty in years 3 and 4 when I'm out of coverage due to mileage covered in year 1 and 2 but we expect that to be offset by not having to shell out £350 for a haldex service every 38,000 miles and £390 every 19,000 miles for a 'long life' oil service on the Audi I was running. And Audi's own year 4 warranty extension wouldn't cover me past 90,000 miles so if it broke (it didn't) it would have been expensive.

But what is even more interesting is that it states that, if you want to keep your warranty, you cannot work on the car yourself and you cannot take the car to anyone other than a Polestar authorised repairer for work to be carried out. That's very Tesla-like.

 

[jpaul]

exclusivity clause is interesting.
edit: someones going to pursue this in court, didn't they have to relent for ice servicing.

to wit 2018 usa doc - 50% of dealership revenue from service/repairs, and that market, is envisaged to persist into 2040, comprehending AV's/bev's transition.
Comment, too, that exclusive demand on dealers will increase, which really corroborates, that Tesla will need local brick servicing facilities+(predominate?)manpower
to meet that, or, jump into bed with an existing dealership chain ?.
https://advisory.kpmg.us/content/dam/advisory/en/pdfs/the-end-of-car-dealerships.pdf


Do wonder too, if batteries did need replacing, will they still be manufacturing the same flavour 10years into ownership ? what part supply obligations do manufacturers have?

 

[WJA96]

Certainly the complexity and exclusivity are reflected in insurance premiums. I was gleefully informed by a Hyundai salesman that the front bumper on a Model 3 was £2500 to replace and that was apparently a good reason to buy a Hyundai. I'm not entirely sure I agree but my insurance premium certainly skyrocketed when I got the Tesla.

 

[whiskycycle]

I've just ordered a Polestar 2 - arriving in January. Gives me some time to get a home charger installed.

Is that the lead time roughly? Cancelled the e208 as we're going to drop to one car, and the P2 is up near the top of the list with a Kuga PHEV (Mrs w needs convincing).

 

[Joe T]

It was great to finally collect the Vauxhall Corsa-e this morning (on World EV Day no less!). We have finally gone electric!

It has a 100kw motor enabling a 0-60 time of 7.6 seconds, and a 50kw battery giving 200 miles of range and can be charged at up to 100kw on a rapid charger.

This is the Elite Nav model, which is very well specified indeed. Kit includes Nav, heated seats and steering wheel, 17” wheels, two large screens, panoramic camera, keyless start/start, and LED matrix lights. The car will normally charged at home, via an Andersen A2 wallbox.

Initial impressions confirm what you would expect: a smooth ride, excellent refinement (ICE cars will now feel poor by comparison!), surprising performance, and a well-built interior. We are looking forward to getting into the world of EV and seeing how the Corsa fits into our lives.

p.s. the garages location for the pictures isnt mine

 

[WJA96]

@Joe T - I had a test drive in one and I was extremely impressed. It feels a lot faster than the 0-60 time would suggest and it's very refined on the motorway. The headlights on the one I tested were fabulous and the stereo was very good as well. It's probably the most ICE-like I've driven with regard to the regenerative braking in B mode. It doesn't do that neck-snapping regen when you lift off and I thought it was a refreshing change.

The only thing I didn't like was that they were offering 0% finance until the middle of August and then it became 5% finance and the payments just seemed to go silly for some reason.

Did you not get the free wallbox?

Enjoy!

 

[Bravetart]

It was great to finally collect the Vauxhall Corsa-e this morning (on World EV Day no less!). We have finally gone electric!

It has a 50kw motor enabling a 0-60 time of 7.6 seconds, and a 100kw battery giving 200 miles of range and can be charged at up to 100kw on a rapid charger.

This is the Elite Nav model, which is very well specified indeed. Kit includes Nav, heated seats and steering wheel, 17” wheels, two large screens, panoramic camera, keyless start/start, and LED matrix lights. The car will normally charged at home, via an Andersen A2 wallbox.

Initial impressions confirm what you would expect: a smooth ride, excellent refinement (ICE cars will now feel poor by comparison!), surprising performance, and a well-built interior. We are looking forward to getting into the world of EV and seeing how the Corsa fits into our lives.

p.s. the garages location for the pictures isnt mine

Nice one! I really like the new styling of the Corsa. I really want to trade my 67 plate Corsa for one of these. I'm really hoping that they will let me start a new PCP early and offer a reasonable monthly PCP amount...Somewhere around 250 would be great, but that's possibly optimistic.

Also yeah, don't they offer you a free charger? I suspect it won't look as neat as the one you've got though!

 

[Joe T]

@Joe T - I had a test drive in one and I was extremely impressed. It feels a lot faster than the 0-60 time would suggest and it's very refined on the motorway. The headlights on the one I tested were fabulous and the stereo was very good as well. It's probably the most ICE-like I've driven with regard to the regenerative braking in B mode. It doesn't do that neck-snapping regen when you lift off and I thought it was a refreshing change.

The only thing I didn't like was that they were offering 0% finance until the middle of August and then it became 5% finance and the payments just seemed to go silly for some reason.

Did you not get the free wallbox?

Enjoy!

Thanks - yes would agree with your comments - sounds like you drove the Elite Nav (same spec). Not sure on financing - this one is on our employee scheme (hence no free wallbox - and I would have wanted the Andersen anyway).

There's currently some good lease deals (https://www.nationwidevehiclecontra...l/corsa-e/100kw-elite-nav-50kwh-auto-7-4kwch1 , for example) if anyone is looking for one.

Thanks!

 

[Joe T]

Nice one! I really like the new styling of the Corsa. I really want to trade my 67 plate Corsa for one of these. I'm really hoping that they will let me start a new PCP early and offer a reasonable monthly PCP amount...Somewhere around 250 would be great, but that's possibly optimistic.

Also yeah, don't they offer you a free charger? I suspect it won't look as neat as the one you've got though!

Yeah possibly optimistic but worth a look!

No free charger on our scheme, but I believe it's still in the retail offer.

 

[jpaul]

Initial impressions confirm what you would expect: a smooth ride, excellent refinement (ICE cars will now feel poor by comparison!), surprising performance, and a well-built interior. We are looking forward to getting into the world of EV and seeing how the Corsa fits into our lives.

so how is your insurance cost versus the predecessor ... did you search much. ?

 

[jpaul]

that's good - looks like the corsa e has a heat pump by default, unlike the default enyaq (which I was checking out)
I'm not sure, manufacturers seem coy about how/if they reveal cold weather range, you could view hp as a battery upgrade.

 

[Russinating]

so how is your insurance cost versus the predecessor ... did you search much. ?

Not a Corse but I was actually surprised by the insurance on my M3. Fairly irrelevant what it actually is given all the factors, but it was £620 and I was paying ~£300 before for an 8-year old Kia.

 

[WJA96]

There are lots of extra potential costs with electric cars. If you damage the electric motor it's a write-off at the moment although I'm sure in future there will be electric motor repairers independent of the manufacturers. Then the battery packs themselves can be damaged. Again, at the moment there are no pattern parts available for those. If there is a battery fire the additional costs for road closures, carriageway damage etc. can be very high. Infamously, some Teslas have been known to take a week to burn out and apparently the fire brigade have no tools to put them out.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

There are lots of extra potential costs with electric cars. If you damage the electric motor it's a write-off at the moment although I'm sure in future there will be electric motor repairers independent of the manufacturers. Then the battery packs themselves can be damaged. Again, at the moment there are no pattern parts available for those. If there is a battery fire the additional costs for road closures, carriageway damage etc. can be very high. Infamously, some Teslas have been known to take a week to burn out and apparently the fire brigade have no tools to put them out.

Im not sure why an electric motor would be a write off if damaged they are basically the same as any other electric motor and these are frequently rebuilt by motor rewinders. The economics may not work but the principle is easy.

They are more likely to be done on an exchange basis for common parts, its no different to starter motors and such on a car now.

Although the damage to motors and battery packs is far less likely to happen from the consumer than with an ICE car, where the potential to do terrible things to an engine and gearbox is easy.
The risks are more akin to a software update borking something and allowing a problem than the consumer directly doing something.
Bar of course an accident or similar, but then how many ICE cars end up with engine/ancilliary/gearbox issues from the same situation

The fires is true, but ICE vehicles equally create road closures and emergency surface repairs needing to be done.

Putting them out is different, most of the ICE vehicles (unless they are carrying something special) are relatively easy to put out and known. Do you think this was the same before mass adoption?
The batteries do have an issue in that the heat build up can mean they are potentially able to self combust again later (its called thermal runaway), packed tightly they can retain heat and start the process over since its a chain reaction, the trick is to be able to cool them enough to remove that risk, or monitor them for a period long enough to rule that out. Its normally caused by damage.
It is a risk with the current chemistry.

But for example for a car sized object a hardcore approach of winch risky car into a container, fill with liquid nitrogen in a controlled manner to rapidly draw the heat out of the whole object would pretty much guarantee taking all the batteries below the point there was enough energy retained to start the combustion process. Even just a simple freezer arctic container may work

 

[jpaul]

I'm assuming the motor could over heat if the cooling system broke but the 'sensor' would probably throttle it back/off (must be some efficiency losses, even, versus ICE)
but he does make the battery sound like it has chernobyl type aspirations.

 

[chroniclard]

It was great to finally collect the Vauxhall Corsa-e this morning (on World EV Day no less!). We have finally gone electric!

It has a 100kw motor enabling a 0-60 time of 7.6 seconds, and a 50kw battery giving 200 miles of range and can be charged at up to 100kw on a rapid charger.

This is the Elite Nav model, which is very well specified indeed. Kit includes Nav, heated seats and steering wheel, 17” wheels, two large screens, panoramic camera, keyless start/start, and LED matrix lights. The car will normally charged at home, via an Andersen A2 wallbox.

Initial impressions confirm what you would expect: a smooth ride, excellent refinement (ICE cars will now feel poor by comparison!), surprising performance, and a well-built interior. We are looking forward to getting into the world of EV and seeing how the Corsa fits into our lives.

p.s. the garages location for the pictures isnt mine

Actually pretty nice. Let us know if its "fun" to drive and whats the room in the back like for say teenagers.

 

[WJA96]

I'm assuming the motor could over heat if the cooling system broke but the 'sensor' would probably throttle it back/off (must be some efficiency losses, even, versus ICE)
but he does make the battery sound like it has chernobyl type aspirations.

I was only covering off reasons why EVs are more expensive to insure.