The principle is very easy, but Tesla, Samsung, Toshiba et al who make the motors won't allow anyone else to service them. They recycle them. It's more straightforward and more cost effective (for them) to just put a new one in and bill the insurers.
EV general discussion
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The principle is very easy, but Tesla, Samsung, Toshiba et al who make the motors won't allow anyone else to service them. They recycle them. It's more straightforward and more cost effective (for them) to just put a new one in and bill the insurers.
I like this article. If you read nothing else, just read the last paragraph about the what happened when the car arrived at the recovery compound.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...uturistic-doors-wouldnt-open-lawsuit-alleges/
And this one is in Russia. Very Chernobyl.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/hybrid-electric/a28687473/tesla-model-3-explosion/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...uturistic-doors-wouldnt-open-lawsuit-alleges/
And this one is in Russia. Very Chernobyl.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/hybrid-electric/a28687473/tesla-model-3-explosion/
Isn’t it the case that in an insurance scenario that the car has to be put back to ‘as new condition’ which would mean that if for example the casing for the motor was damaged, it would just be replaced with a brand new part (e.g. no refurbished or used parts). I have heard of Tesla’s with very minor undercarriage damage (e.g. a small grove on the battery pack) being written off but in reality it has zero effect on its function.
Another example is that if a bumper had a small crack in a place you couldn’t even see or affect its function would be replaced instead of repaired or even ignored.
Another example is that if a bumper had a small crack in a place you couldn’t even see or affect its function would be replaced instead of repaired or even ignored.
No, not as new, as it was before the accident. It’s very common for non-manufacturer bodyshops to use pattern parts to repair cars. Something like a tailgate glass marked up with Audi is £1200 vs. £700 for the same part, from the same OEM without the Audi lettering. And that’s OK but what’s not OK is when they replace it with a £300 Chinese glass screen that might or might not be the same standard, because it’s never been tested.
Soldato
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There is no servicing is there from my understanding there isnt
The no copy part / refurbished part is often the way with new things, once you get to the point there is a reasonable demand then copies / refurb will happen, its not unique to Evs its also the same with new ICE cars with new parts.
From my experience insurance will use copy parts for insignificant and bodywork etc since this will not affect the running of the vehicle but they will only use OEM rated parts for mechanical. So they will use eg a lucas part for example but wouldn't use a no name chinese one.
The insurer will not void your warranty by using non standard parts. Once you move outside manufacturer warranty period then its more about economics, and this is where you need to be more careful as the person whos car is being repaired to check that suitable parts are being replaced.
Again this is no diff to ICA cars. You wouldnt expect a copy non standard gear set to be fitted to a 1 year old car, but you might to a 10 year old one
Again, I’m obviously not communicating the point I wanted to make initially, which is that insurance for EVs is more expensive because...
From an insurance point of view, you said that the process of ‘rewinding’ these motors was straightforward and that others could/would do it in future. And it’s not quite like that. Currently there is no source of OEM parts for EVs as far as I’m aware. If the battery pack or motor on a Tesla is damaged in an accident you have to buy a new one. Tesla do not refurbish these items. Panasonic do not refurbish the batteries. They’re recycled, and the insurance company has to buy a new one. And the level of integration is such that any manufacturer is going to really have to reverse engineer the entire vehicle operating system if they want to make a pattern part work.
The first of the Tesla Model S are now 7 or 8 years old. There are no companies furbishing the parts for them. There are no copy body panels for them. If you want to fix one yourself you either need to strip the parts off another crashed one or, in the case of the battery packs, strip the cells out of a damaged one and make one good set of cells from two or more bad sets. Tesla have refused to supply parts to anyone but their own workshops and bodyshops and they charge a lot for the replacement parts. It’s the same for Models X and 3. We’re talking about a lot of cars. And there aren’t any pattern parts. You might be able to get Brembo brakes for a model 3 Performance but the core of the car - motors, batteries and computers are all items you can only get new, from Tesla. The other manufacturers are not blind. They see how much money Tesla are making on spares and how much they can they can make from an ecosystem where only manufacturer branded spare parts work on the car and they’re building it in.
The insurer might not invalidate your warranty, but the manufacturer most certainly will. And an awful lot more cars will be written off as uneconomical to repair. All of this increases the repair costs per incident and that’s why EVs are, and probably will remain, more expensive to insure than ICE cars. In my opinion.
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Yeah it's really interesting, i can see in the not too distant future companies starting to make pattern body panels and glass for Teslas now they're becoming more mainstream but with the rest of the car like batteries and motors it'll be interesting.
I don't really see people making pattern batteries as each manufacture is so different currently, Tesla with their small round cells vs the rest with pouches of different sizes and styles.
But in the grand scheme of things replacing a battery pack might be the equivalent of replacing an ICE cars engine and gearbox, how often does that really need to happen?
I don't really see people making pattern batteries as each manufacture is so different currently, Tesla with their small round cells vs the rest with pouches of different sizes and styles.
But in the grand scheme of things replacing a battery pack might be the equivalent of replacing an ICE cars engine and gearbox, how often does that really need to happen?
There are some 3rd party Tesla parts for common issues like door handles but I can see why there are not any pattern parts also. There are simply too few of them on the road to warrant someone going to the trouble of making them and they haven’t been around long enough.
I doubt there will ever be 3rd party motors or batteries. There are way too many proprietary electronics contained in them. The motor and inverter is one unit and I think it’s coded to other modules in the car. Getting one repaired may be an option though in the future.
I doubt there will ever be 3rd party motors or batteries. There are way too many proprietary electronics contained in them. The motor and inverter is one unit and I think it’s coded to other modules in the car. Getting one repaired may be an option though in the future.
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Yes exactly its what hes failing to take into account, demand
Low volume ICE cars (and until Tesla M3 they were all low volume) dont have a multitude of pattern parts either.
The reality is they will function exactly like ICE cars once they are mainstream, enough sold to make pattern parts financially viable those parts will appear
Its a hard comparison but the Ev motor is more like the ICE gearbox and the EV battery more lik ethe ICE engine in complexity and cost
So where you would get a say 3-6 year old ICE that has the engine damaged either written off or an engine swap you would get the same for battery damage with the EV, and where the EV damages a motor again its almost certain you will get either a swap in of a part used one, or a rebuild like an ICE car.
Tesla like every car manufacturer wants their own bits used, and with young or rare vehicles they almost always will be. Once Tesla M3s get older then thats the point where a more significant pattern and refurbish process can start.
I think its Nissan who already offer remanufactured cells, Japan only I think, but its the sort of thing that will spring up, if there is demand
Going back to the insurance angle, I have some insight as I used to do projects at one of the UKs largest, with ICE vehicles they know a lot, history of teh manufacturer etc. When new they have this available to be able to fairly accurately predict the vehicle, new and rare cars will be loaded since they don't have nor will they use pattern parts. Its why imports are often grouped higher for similar cars, part availability will be lower wich increases claim costs as they often result in longer repair times = longer higher car and more expensive parts.
I am sure right now the ins cos are loading BEVs a bit cautiously until they start to get some true claims costs experience
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/05/15/nissan-begins-offering-remanufactured-batteries-for-leaf/
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The issue will be due to the size if its economic for local experts to remanufacture them. Working in an environment where we have loads of electric motors from tiny ones to one that a forktruck cant lift and how thay all at some point end up being rebuilt its not the ability to do it thats a question, its whether for a part that size and complexity it would ever be worth doing.
They are the sort of part that will either become a big issue for failure and hence improved, I see this as unlikely or a rare failure that once cars are more than afew years old, widely available as used due to uneconomic repairs meaning you get specialised breakers taking crash damaged vehicles to bits, again, just like now with ICE cars.
Agree I dont see 3rd party copies of those parts, they are the sorts of part to be remanufactured, just like an ICE engine and gearbox.
with the hope that auto drive taxis start to take over from personal ownership, and commercial vehicles use too, there is the drive for million mile batteries,
otherwise, those users, will need a pack replacement ... wonder what mileages are on scanias ice lorries.
Unless there is standardization, I can see that ongoing manufacture of old tech batteries will be problematic, batteries are not open to re-manufacture like a re-bore on an engine,
saying that I guess there a few (eco friendly ?) older tech lithium ion manufacturers in china, but there capacity maybe dwarfed already by that of electric vehichles
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See above where I put a link to nissan literally offering remanufactured battery packs, there is nothing stopping it technically, as ever just demand
You are over complicating things, a battery pack and BMS doesn't need to be an exact fit other than in dimensions, there could be much newer packs with far different chemistry used in a much older car, the only requirements are the output voltage for the motors and current demand at any given time.
Do I need to use a specific 18650 battery with a specific chemistry if I make a pack for an e-bike? Nope, I just build it and make it compatible with the motor and tell the BMS system what the combined cells are capable of for both input and output, which is the point in the BMS it controls the pack.
telegraph had an article on the number of people pc. , thinking of buying an electric bike scooter, and, ebay batteries, with the corollary warning about house fires.
charging profile and chemistry for ev batteries can be very particular eg teslas problems https://electrek.co/2020/06/06/tesla-battery-degradation-replacement/.
charging profile and chemistry for ev batteries can be very particular eg teslas problems https://electrek.co/2020/06/06/tesla-battery-degradation-replacement/.
Just throwing this out there, there are companies that repair some of the ev components and the screen mcu thingy
It’s a bit dangerous to be hacking up a battery pack and taking the right amount of cells to match a e bike motor voltage and then somehow fit them on the ebike. Or are we talking about bolting 100kg+ of batteries on a bike ?
Do you have real examples of this or it this hypothetical?
Home maintenance on your electric vehicle is going to be a bit of a faux-pas .... waiting for that, regular, ECP battery sale ?
curious/enigmatic polestar add just on c4 .... /www.adsoftheworld.com/media/film/polestar_the_human_car
curious/enigmatic polestar add just on c4 .... /www.adsoftheworld.com/media/film/polestar_the_human_car
Isn't expensive insurance more a Tesla issue (rather than a general EV problem) because of slow repairs and costly/hard to obtain parts?
My e-Golf is super cheap to insure (less than $100 for the collision/comprehensive part of the policy) but when I got a quote for a Model Y it was over $500!
For comparison my M850i on the same policy is about $350...
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Possibly. In the UK most EVs are more expensive to insure than their ICE equivalents. It’s all speculation really, just a bit of fun.
I don’t see how anything on the battery is going to be straightforward. They’re really heavy, so while I’ve seen folks drop battery packs onto stack of pallets under a 4-post lift, you still need a 4-post lift and despite what everyone is saying, I don’t see the vehicle manufacturers releasing parts for refurbishing companies to work on the motors. There is just too much extra profit in keeping it to yourself.