5700XT: Fine Wine strikes again

Jono8 · 13 Sep 2020 at 17:09

humbug said:
You said £250 to £300.

Which i then said i would revise to £279 - £329, which is +£29 on my original window of prediction (based on exchange rates)

The 3060 will very much likely fall in the $299-$349 category.

1060 was $249
2060 was $349 - Then cut to $299 at a lower tier due to 2060S
2060S was $399

Therefore chances of it being any higher than $349 (which would appear to translate to £329 in todays money in GBP) are very slim, and there is every chance Nvidia release it at $299 to fit a 3060Ti in between it and the 3070.

Hence my prediction, and why i initially said £250 - £300 (as personally i think they may do the whole 3060 and 3060 ti thing and therefore release a $299 3060).

humbug · 13 Sep 2020 at 17:12

Jono8 said:
The 3060 will very much likely fall in the $299-$349 category.

£300 to £350 is £50 more than £250 to £300.

Jono8 · 13 Sep 2020 at 17:15

humbug said:
£300 to £350 is £100 more than £250 to £300.

Not as a window of prediction/speculation, no.....and again you are misquoting me. I have repeatedly said "£279 - £329"

:confused:

So i revised my window of prediction up £29. I'm not sure if you are just trolling now. Or are you getting confused with me quoting dollar RRPs and likely GBP translations?

humbug · 13 Sep 2020 at 17:18

Jono8 said:
Not as a window of prediction/speculation, no.....and again you are misquoting me. I have repeatedly said "£279 - £329"

So i revised my window of prediction up £29. I'm not sure if you are just trolling now.

In your last post you revised it up again to £300 to £350, i think you realised that £250 to £300 was never going to happen, under £350 yes maybe but at that its going to be about as good as the original 6GB 2060 was... very "Meh"

Jono8 · 13 Sep 2020 at 17:22

humbug said:
In your last post you revised it up again to £300 to £350..

What?!

I think you are confusing the usd and gbp prices I am quoting. I'm working roughly on what the US rrp normally translates to (from the last gens/exchange rates).

So just to clear this up:

I initially said £250-£300. I have since revised this to £279 -£329.

Those are the only gbp numbers I have given you.

humbug · 13 Sep 2020 at 17:24

Why change currency, with Tax $ - £ are usually 1:1

Jono8 · 13 Sep 2020 at 17:27

humbug said:
Why change currency, with Tax $ - £ are usually 1:1

Incorrect.

Look at what Nvidia are selling the 3070, 3080 and 3090 for UK price wise.

gpuerrilla · 13 Sep 2020 at 17:47

Lokken86 said:
Nobody is crying about getting 10fps less then a card that cost £150 more. Just happy about getting 10fps more then the card that cost the same (2060s). Are the 2060super owners happy that it fell more behind?
Also most buy the card for how it performs at the time and any extra performance that comes with drivers is just a bonus as far as I'm concerned.
Finally most of those games were new and the 5700xt performance was better straight from the get go.

Lokken, sadly you understand mate. Some, will never get it. Dont waste too much energy!

humbug · 13 Sep 2020 at 17:48

Jono8 said:
Incorrect.

Look at what Nvidia are selling the 3070, 3080 and 3090 for UK price wise.

Founders Edition? No idea but the cited price was $499, are they still $100 more than AIB cards?

I did look at the 3070 to confirm pricing for my first reply to you, there is one card for £450, a few others for £470 and the rest £500 and up from there.

This point has been made before but it needs to again, £450 and up for a ##70 class card is not cheap, £300 and up is not cheap for a ##60 class card, anything below the ##60 class cards seem to be what were your budget class, or junk class cards while still costing 100's of £.

AMD, tho to a lesser extent are also gulty of hollowing out the mid and lower end with crap making usable mid level cards at very high end prices, AMD originally wanted £450 for the 5700XT, that's too much for a card in that class, and yet Nvidia's 2070 was even more than that.

Just because Nvidia brought the pricing back down to less insane levels from the utterly bonkers level of the out going generation doesn't make Ampere suddenly good value again, they are horrendously poor value.

Jono8 · 13 Sep 2020 at 17:58

humbug said:
Just because Nvidia brought the pricing back down to less insane levels from the utterly bonkers level of the out going generation doesn't make Ampere suddenly good value again, they are horrendously poor value.

I agree. I think GPU's are poor value these days and the ridiculous halo prices for Nvidia's top cards are absurd. £650 for a 3080 when the Xbox series X is only £450 for the whole machine is really quite silly (considering the xbox will likely play games just as well as a 3080).

Not sure how the rest of what you posted is related to my original point though?

Basically, yes i think it is very possible we see the 3060 under £300, especially due to rumours of a 3060Ti floating about. I think it is highly unlikely that the 3060 will be any higher than around £329 (based on an RRP of $349).

gpuerrilla · 13 Sep 2020 at 17:59

humbug said:
Just because Nvidia brought the pricing back down to less insane levels from the utterly bonkers level of the out going generation doesn't make Ampere suddenly good value again, they are horrendously poor value.

Quite so, and Turing before that was an utter farce. Still mainstream masses think this is a bargain and piling on pre-orders when they dont know how they really perform lol.

humbug · 13 Sep 2020 at 18:05

Th0nt said:
Quite so, and Turing before that was an utter farce. Still mainstream masses think this is a bargain and piling on pre-orders when they dont know how they really perform lol.

Charge bonkers money for one generation and bring the prices down a bit for the next.... people think they are getting a bargain.... Jensen can't stop laughing!

TNA · 13 Sep 2020 at 18:08

kevman said:
Fine wine is good and all but its a pity AMD can't get this performance or there abouts on release day

If they did, they would charge for it, not like you would get it for free? This you get for free.

Gray2233 · 13 Sep 2020 at 18:11

TNA said:
If they did, they would charge for it, not like you would get it for free? This you get for free.

I don't see it as a bad deal personally.

A few people in this thread are acting like an existing generation becomes immediately obsolete the moment a new generation launches, the thing is the amount of people that upgrade every single generation are a minority. The people that bought and were happy with the 5700XT were doing so for as cheap as £330 at times, now according the the data from the OP the card is performing on par with or better than cards that were double the price. That's a very nice improvement for people that upgrade every other generation, or even keep their cards for as long as possible.

gpuerrilla · 13 Sep 2020 at 18:13

Gray2233 said:
I don't see it as a bad deal personally.

A few people in this thread are acting like an existing generation becomes immediately obsolete the moment a new generation launches, the thing is the amount of people that upgrade every single generation are a huge minority. The people that bought and were happy with the 5700XT were doing so for as cheap as £330 at times, now according the the data from the OP the card is performing on par with or better than cards that were double the price. That's a very nice improvement for people that upgrade every other generation, or even keep their cards for as long as possible.

Another guy that just gets it. Must be nvidienvy or something they have!

aoaaron · 13 Sep 2020 at 18:15

I think if you're keeping GPU for years upon years, I can see the case for this mattering a lot. Historically for these users, AMD are amazing. For the users who are at the cutting edge, I think this fine wine stuff is just not as applicable.

As a general consumer who just wants the best of the best on day one and will happily sell on his card after a year or two to upgrade, AMD just don't cut the mustard with this fine wine stuff. I'd rather they release products around the same time as NVIDIA and allow us to make informed decisions on which GPU is better.

As much as the 5700XT ages well for example, its still going to be torn a new one by an RTX 3070.. which by this time, higher end users are upgrading to.

It is nice though that AMD drivers mature much better than NVIDIAs but we need to have this maturation over a shorter time period.

gpuerrilla · 13 Sep 2020 at 18:20

The relevance to the post @aoaaron is as rdna1 card mentioned is the stepping stone to the new gen, they should have better grasp of the drivers and with all the improvements (IPC, +50% ppw etc.) have a nice product, particularly those that are upgrading from polaris/vega.

Its pretty much set in stone that if you get an AMD card the drivers will do you well for a year or two, you just have to get the best one you can at the start.

Gray2233 · 13 Sep 2020 at 18:21

aoaaron said:
As a general consumer who just wants the best of the best on day one and will happily sell on his card after a year or two to upgrade, AMD just don't cut the mustard with this fine wine stuff. I'd rather they release products around the same time as NVIDIA and allow us to make informed decisions on which GPU is better.

Budget dependent of course, but the 5700XT was comparable to the 2070S for a very long time while being considerably cheaper. If you're literally talking about the best of the best, AMD simply didn't have a product within that price range. Look at this way, someone could have bought a 5700XT for around £330-350 or a 2070S for around £430-450 (The cheapest I personally remembering the cards being). The user who bought the 2070S had slightly better performance in most areas but might have had added benefit due to being streamers or needing certain technology NV offered and mostly worry free drivers. The 5700XT user had slightly fewer fewer features, potential issues with drivers, and ultimately better performance as time went on, which for longer term users would be beneficial.

I think for the 'general' gamer, driver issues aside, the 5700XT would have been the better buy. Unfortunately the stigma of 'driver issues' and 'hot and power hungry' tends to bite AMD every single generation and has done for a long time even when it hasn't been true.

aoaaron · 13 Sep 2020 at 18:23

Th0nt said:
The relevance to the post @aoaaron is as rdna1 card mentioned is the stepping stone to the new gen, they should have better grasp of the drivers and with all the improvements (IPC, +50% ppw etc.) have a nice product, particularly those that are upgrading from polaris/vega.

Its pretty much set in stone that if you get an AMD card the drivers will do you well for a year or two, you just have to get the best one you can at the start.

From that perspective, its really exciting.

AMD are on a smaller process AND they might be able to use their driver maturation to extract better performance from their new cards.

Hopefully this allows them to finally compete with NVIDIA's high end cards (3080/3090).

Their absence from the 1080ti/2080/2080ti was very sad last generations which is why I understand people's apprehension on waiting on them.

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 13 Sep 2020 at 18:23

The reference RX5700 went as low as £260ish last year IIRC.