AMD Zen 3 (5000 Series), rumored 17% IPC gain.

[Journey]

No, the numbers are flawed and assume a cpu is running flat out

But that isn't what I said is it? And CPU's don't have to be running flat out to consume more power, the consume more power as they are used regardless if that is 100% of not. Next you'll be telling me that when I design and engineer a 1U system I should ignore the 35w TDP parts and just bung in a 65w TDP part ''cause they'll be the same unless flat out"

I said "with a CPU that consumes on average 20w more per CPU" on average, 20w more... not only consumes 20w more when running full tilt.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Don't forget a hidden added cost of more expensive cooling system, possibly more expensive case that comes with high power CPU.

Except that the product is always going to operate within a reasonable thermal and power envelope. You don’t need a £100+ cooler and case to cool a 10900k/3950x unless you are overclocking.

 

[humbug]

Don't forget a hidden added cost of more expensive cooling system, possibly more expensive case that comes with high power CPU.

True, but a lot of people don't think to factor that in when looking, especially with Intel as they have to buy one anyway, so they just buy a cooler, the fact that Ryzen comes with one in the box may also factor in.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

But that isn't what I said is it? And CPU's don't have to be running flat out to consume more power, the consume more power as they are used regardless if that is 100% of not. Next you'll be telling me that when I design and engineer a 1U system I should ignore the 35w TDP parts and just bung in a 65w TDP part ''cause they'll be the same unless flat out"

I said "with a CPU that consumes on average 20w more per CPU" on average, 20w more... not only consumes 20w more when running full tilt.

But that’s not what happens in reality, that’s why I said it’s flawed. We’re talking about consumer purchasing decisions of consumer products. Performance per watt has little or zero influence on that.

 

[Richdog]

But that’s not what happens in reality, that’s why I said it’s flawed. We’re talking about consumer purchasing decisions of consumer products. Performance per watt has little or zero influence on that.

Correct, and it's pretty much always been that way in the PC enthusiast game. People buy the fastest performer for the price they can afford. Energy efficiency is always a nice bonus, but hardly a deciding factor.

 

[Journey]

But that’s not what happens in reality, that’s why I said it’s flawed. We’re talking about consumer purchasing decisions of consumer products. Performance per watt has little or zero influence on that.

What? Where did I mention consumer purchasing decisions at all in my original post? I simply made a point about inefficiency in desktop PC's. I didn't quote anyone, or follow up another point other than what a waste of energy it is. Why are you trying to argue with simple maths?

 

[kevman]

True, but a lot of people don't think to factor that in when looking, especially with Intel as they have to buy one anyway, so they just buy a cooler, the fact that Ryzen comes with one in the box may also factor in.

TBH I think that AMD should ditch the cooler at the enthusiast end of the product line as surely most will not use it. Or at least offer a non-cooler version for less money seems like a bit of a waste to me.

 

[alec]

TBH I think that AMD should ditch the cooler at the enthusiast end of the product line as surely most will not use it. Or at least offer a non-cooler version for less money seems like a bit of a waste to me.

They have ditched it with XT line. Makes sense. If some of new CPU TDP is 150W, should skip coolers on those as well.

 

[humbug]

TBH I think that AMD should ditch the cooler at the enthusiast end of the product line as surely most will not use it. Or at least offer a non-cooler version for less money seems like a bit of a waste to me.

Agreed, especially given that a lot of Youtubers performance benchmarked Zen 2 with the box cooler against Intel CPU's with a £150 AIO and MCE enabled.

Keep the box cooler on lower and mid range CPU's, its great for those on a tight budget, but no more box coolers with the higher end ones.

 

[G J]

Oh nice if true I thought this was pretty good benchmark result and it got even sweeter when the 5800X has 2 less cores and threads.

10900K about to become the new 2080ti.

 

[Curlyriff]

750w is a lot. Most people vastly overestimate their computer's power draw.

It isn't a lot if you are trying to be at the 50% efficiency to reduce the heat output from the PSU or keep the fan from spinning in eco mode though by being at say 40%

Edit: And with these new GPU's from Nvidia it has been shown with say a 10900k would be over 600watt full system drawer and actually getting crashes with a 600w PSU so having the AMD chip higher wattage wouldn't be good for those systems.

 

[LePhuronn]

So lets get this straight... you are running around 5-6 separate machines and then criticizing people for running 1 machine containing an overclocked Intel CPU? You have to laugh at that kind of oblivious hypocrisy.

In future, my love, please try to comprehend my words so you actually understand what I'm saying. Kindly point out to me where I criticised somebody for running an overclocked CPU. I'll wait. Whilst you're at it, re-read my post to understand what I actually said: I countered the point that energy efficiency doesn't matter because "it's only a consumer CPU". Energy efficiency does matter, because there are a number of knock-on effects, considerations and purchasing decisions that come from it, or the lack of efficiency. My example was merely illustrative of how energy efficiency can and should be considered.

Pretty sure there's no hypocrisy involved either, but then if you had basic comprehension of what I write then you wouldn't make such claims to begin with...

 

[humbug]

It isn't a lot if you are trying to be at the 50% efficiency to reduce the heat output from the PSU or keep the fan from spinning in eco mode though by being at say 40%

Edit: And with these new GPU's from Nvidia it has been shown with say a 10900k would be over 600watt full system drawer and actually getting crashes with a 600w PSU so having the AMD chip higher wattage wouldn't be good for those systems.

The TDP at 150 Watts will have gone up, But TDP is a meaningless number, the 3900X has a TDP of 105 Watts, actually pulls 130 Watts under a high load, the 10900K has a TDP of 125 Watts, under the same load it pulls more than 200 Watts.
That is unless you're Steve Burke in which case you would go into the BIOS and lock the CPU to TDP for power consumption testing and then claim Intel are more efficient than AMD and Intel unlike AMD don't lie about their TDP....

 

[alec]

unless you're Steve Burke in which case you would go into the BIOS and lock the CPU to TDP for power consumption testing and then claim Intel are more efficient than AMD

Can't quite remember such efficiency claim, quite possible.
But in next sentence he surely blasted motherboard manufacturers for cheating with default BIOS settings.

Truth is, most CPUs and GPUs would be miles more efficient if they weren't factory overclocked to the wall.
See Ryzen 3700X vs 3800X. Barely any performance gain for solid 30-40W more power.
See RTX 3080, limiting power level you drop 20% consumption for maybe 3% performance.
Hell, even Vega 64 was a nice almost efficient card when undervolted.

 

[Richdog]

In future, my love, please try to comprehend my words so you actually understand what I'm saying. Kindly point out to me where I criticised somebody for running an overclocked CPU. I'll wait. Whilst you're at it, re-read my post to understand what I actually said: I countered the point that energy efficiency doesn't matter because "it's only a consumer CPU". Energy efficiency does matter, because there are a number of knock-on effects, considerations and purchasing decisions that come from it, or the lack of efficiency. My example was merely illustrative of how energy efficiency can and should be considered.

Pretty sure there's no hypocrisy involved either, but then if you had basic comprehension of what I write then you wouldn't make such claims to begin with...

"My love"? Goodness... are you as awkward interacting with people in real-life as you are on forums? Cringeworthy...

But sure, here is what I was referring to...

If you're content to run 1 computer in a massive case and burn 400W through an overclocked Intel POS then that's entirely your choice. Personally, I have more stringent requirements.

The implication is clear.

 

[kevman]

10900K about to become the new 2080ti.

If the 10900k drops in price by half overnight I will buy one despite what AMD release

 

[kevman]

I thought Intels TDP was stock settings only

 

[humbug]

Can't quite remember such efficiency claim, quite possible.
But in next sentence he surely blasted motherboard manufacturers for cheating with default BIOS settings.

He made not one but 2 videos about how AMD's TDP is fake, and a rant about it in every video about it before, after and between.

I wouldn't care so much but both of them, Intel and AMD are as bad as eachother, that TDP rating is for the CPU before it boosts, its for the base clock they write on the box, the difference being the delta between the base clock on Intel's CPU's is vastly higher than AMD's and in reality the Intel CPU at least doubles it's TDP rating when left alone.

That's fine if its boosting to 4.7Ghz in blender and pulling 220 Watts but that then is the power consumption, especially if what you're doing is performance testing with it like that. After having done that then say "Oh motherboards are cheating, that's why the high power consumption so lock it to TDP or its unfair to Intel."

Lock them both to TDP for Blender and power consumption testing. No, because then AMD widens the lead. AMD all core turbo is 100 to 300Mhz higher than base. not 1Ghz.

 

[Deleted User 456458]

I thought Intels TDP was stock settings only

It's stock after PL1, PLC2 and TAU timers run out. During the PL1/PL2/TAU window the TDP can exceed the published figure.

 

[humbug]

If AMD are pushing the TDP up from 105 Watts to 150 Watts for the same number of cores, on a better 7nm node. AMD are pushing the all core base clocks WAY UP.