Trading the stockmarket (NO Referrals)

uncle_rufus · 5 Oct 2020 at 11:35

HACO said:
In accumulation funds the dividends are reinvested automatically (the dividend date is only there for tax purposes), you're not issued new shares. The value of your existing shares will be increased

Probably me being thick but... the value of my shares increases/decreases all the time as the market changes anyway doesn't it? That description almost makes it sound like you get absolutely nothing from it (effectively)

As to the corporate action... is there a way for me to tell what happened? There's not a lot of info in the HL interface

HACO · 5 Oct 2020 at 11:47

uncle_rufus said:
Probably me being thick but... the value of my shares increases/decreases all the time as the market changes anyway doesn't it? That description almost makes it sound like you get absolutely nothing from it (effectively)

As to the corporate action... is there a way for me to tell what happened? There's not a lot of info in the HL interface

Look at the income and accumulation funds:
https://www.hl.co.uk/funds/fund-dis...esults/v/vanguard-ftse-100-index-accumulation
https://www.hl.co.uk/funds/fund-dis...arch-results/v/vanguard-ftse-100-index-income

Accumulation is at 10,090.88p versus 8,653.04p for income. These Vanguard funds were launched in 2016 (at equal valuations), so that's the difference that dividend reinvestment has had in the last 4 years. If you look at the HSBC equivalents which launched in 1994 (accumulation, income), it's 197p versus 97p. That's the difference of 26 years of dividend reinvestment. You can buy income funds and use the money to buy more shares in the income fund, you'll have more shares of a fund that's worth less, versus fewer shares of a fund that's worth more. So the end result is mathematically the same.

Regarding corporate actions, these are announced by companies so there should be a way to look them up. Funds usually give a quarterly update which includes information about corporate actions of the stocks that they hold. If you haven't heard or found anything, it's probably something very minor, like an equalisation adjustment due to the timing of your transaction and dividend payments. If you contact HL they will give you the exact reason.

Daytrader · 5 Oct 2020 at 11:53

Did the price of your unit not go up ?

uncle_rufus · 5 Oct 2020 at 12:03

Nice one thanks @HACO - that makes perfect sense now

Daytrader said:
Did the price of your unit not go up ?

My unit is priceless

It probably did, especially based on the above now that I understand it! I'll have a poke around later and check, assuming the interface allows me to see that info

Trig · 5 Oct 2020 at 12:25

HACO said:
CINE is the lowest it's ever been, at 27p after the announcement about closures. It's been a very well-run company before Covid so I'm expecting it to bounce back eventually. Might drop lower than even 20p. Very closely monitoring.

Already added to the watch list, could be an interesting one, question is how many of these companies will last until Christmas, let alone March time which I think it'll be before things start getting back to any sort of actual normal.

BabelFish · 5 Oct 2020 at 13:43

While CINE did make great profits pre-COVID, the debt on the balance sheet means I wouldn't invest, rapid vaccine development and return to normal and it could shoot up though.

413x · 5 Oct 2020 at 14:11

Cineworld is a massive gamble. And might get a dilution too?

I was expecting my recently bought ezj shares to dive today. For some reason they are up?makes no sense

Calpol · 5 Oct 2020 at 14:41

413x said:
Cineworld is a massive gamble. And might get a dilution too?

I was expecting my recently bought ezj shares to dive today. For some reason they are up?makes no sense

This is where the film industry needs to think longer term and for the industry not just a single studio's short term return on investment. On the assumption that the studios don't see a wholesale shift to online distribution then surely they have to play a role in preserving the cinemas. The big problem for CINE will be avoiding a default on the debt they have which is substantial and that is what makes this a risky punt. If it runs out of liquidity then suitors might prefer the debt to be written off making an insolvency more likely. Conversely CINE might be able to refinance and buy some time assuming the debt holders don't want a big haircut. Its down at 22p now and I am tempted to take a punt.

413x · 5 Oct 2020 at 15:06

Calpol said:
This is where the film industry needs to think longer term and for the industry not just a single studio's short term return on investment. On the assumption that the studios don't see a wholesale shift to online distribution then surely they have to play a role in preserving the cinemas. The big problem for CINE will be avoiding a default on the debt they have which is substantial and that is what makes this a risky punt. If it runs out of liquidity then suitors might prefer the debt to be written off making an insolvency more likely. Conversely CINE might be able to refinance and buy some time assuming the debt holders don't want a big haircut. Its down at 22p now and I am tempted to take a punt.

Its tempting at a small punt. Its 10x lower than it was. Even 1k would be 10k (not expecting it to get back to 220 but you know..

Martynt74 · 5 Oct 2020 at 15:10

Agreed, it's almost worth the small punt for curiosity stakes.

Not that my small punt is a grand however

EDIT - Gone with a limit order at 23p. They've recovered slightly from when i first looked when they were about 21p and i'm being cautious!

413x · 5 Oct 2020 at 15:54

Marvt74 said:
Agreed, it's almost worth the small punt for curiosity stakes.

Not that my small punt is a grand however

Yeah I've rethought and thinking about half that I dunno. Its a bit gambling eaque for me.

EDIT - Gone with a limit order at 23p. They've recovered slightly from when i first looked when they were about 21p and i'm being cautious!

Martynt74 · 5 Oct 2020 at 16:03

Yeah, i've gone with £500

I figure todays hit is mainly driven by panic but realistically shutting down is the sensible option. I imagine it'll recover in the short term and i'll likely kick myself not just buying at 25p as i reckon it's a quick easy 20% trade. But i'm trying to keep my sensible head on. One thing my history has taught me is to be sensible with trades and not let emotion/greed override my decisions (i'm looking at you Quindell!)

I'd also imagine landlords would be receptive to decent terms/reductions on rent, because those buildings aren't really usable for anything else so they'd be shooting themselves in the foot by pushing for insolvency as they'd just be left with large empty buildings (given that the competition likely already have venues in the area)

Calpol · 5 Oct 2020 at 16:05

Marvt74 said:
Agreed, it's almost worth the small punt for curiosity stakes.

Not that my small punt is a grand however

EDIT - Gone with a limit order at 23p. They've recovered slightly from when i first looked when they were about 21p and i'm being cautious!

I've got in at £0.237 - £500. Let's see what happens!

Martynt74 · 5 Oct 2020 at 16:06

Calpol said:
I've got in at £0.237 - £500. Let's see what happens!

Well done, as i say i think i'll live to regret setting my buy order quite low.

There's a lot of support around 25p, so you're already around 10% up.

Irish_Tom · 5 Oct 2020 at 16:07

Just got an email from Cavendish Online to say they've been bought by Fidelity.

Shouldn't make too much difference seeing as I managed my S&S ISA through the Fidelity platform anyway but it will be interesting to see if they put the platform charges up in 12 month's time.

silversurfer · 5 Oct 2020 at 17:53

Accumulation or Acc saved my bacon on a poorly timed ftse fund buy because it keeps reinvesting something. It would have been better if I added regularly instead of a lump sun, I didnt but at least some new units were going in at the lows so it came good.

The big problem for CINE will be avoiding a default on the debt they have which is substantial and that is what makes this a risky punt.

They are in trouble then because thats a year or more of debt repayments to find with no profits

operations might resume in "two months, or a bit longer".

Dont really believe that, its better to buy into a recovery if they remain capable of that. Bonds > shares

413x · 5 Oct 2020 at 19:25

silversurfer said:
Accumulation or Acc saved my bacon on a poorly timed ftse fund buy because it keeps reinvesting something. It would have been better if I added regularly instead of a lump sun, I didnt but at least some new units were going in at the lows so it came good.

They are in trouble then because thats a year or more of debt repayments to find with no profits

Dont really believe that, its better to buy into a recovery if they remain capable of that. Bonds > shares

Yeah I can't see much chance of them getting anything open before Christmas.

Rent and debt increase are both going on with no takings

Might be wrong but what films are even due out?

Psiko · 5 Oct 2020 at 19:38

413x said:
Yeah I can't see much chance of them getting anything open before Christmas.

Rent and debt increase are both going on with no takings

Might be wrong but what films are even due out?

I think I read the debt is trading in the 60s so lenders aren't expecting a decent recovery.

DireEmblem · 5 Oct 2020 at 21:15

Not sure I would gamble on Cineworld to be honest. Now Greatland Gold on the other hand, lets wait and see what the results are in December.

caff · 5 Oct 2020 at 23:57

Nvidia still doing well. A surprising number of announcements in the AI field since the ARM acquisition. But I still wonder how much of it will actually become reality rather than just joint venture news pieces. I'm holding for now whilst it rises.