Incoming B550 warming up the VRM scene ..

orbitalwalsh · 8 Oct 2020 at 13:57

So, MSI and Asus Joining Aorus Master and ASRock Taichi in offering VRM greater then x570 flagships .

Asus and MSI offering 14 x 90amp phases (believe through twinning / teaming ) across the Vcore .

Aorus master currently plays 14 x 70amps direct through 16 channel PWM

And Taichi is 14 x 50amps using Doublers .

Believe all are on 6 layer PCB . All handling 5000hz ram . I know Aorus 4400hz kit are plug and play on the Master board

Gray2233 · 8 Oct 2020 at 14:02

Total turn around from the travesty most B450 boards were, even the higher priced ones were usually cack.

Vince · 8 Oct 2020 at 14:06

Gray2233 said:
Total turn around from the travesty most B450 boards were, even the higher priced ones were usually cack.

I was running a 2700x on a asrock b450m-hdv worked flawlessly no need for these massive VRM's, no need at all. 14x70 amp power stages to run a 65w/95w part is just ridiculous. Power delivery is important but I feel that manufacturers are putting way to much into having a stupidly beefy vrm that frankly are not nessesary.

orbitalwalsh · 8 Oct 2020 at 14:07

Gray2233 said:
Total turn around from the travesty most B450 boards were, even the higher priced ones were usually cack.

Question for MSI.. since now they have totally killed the X570 Toma vrm and ram design wise (and also releasing the redesign to late) ...are they going to release them cheaper due to less PCIe 4.0 wiring...

Rroff · 8 Oct 2020 at 14:07

I miss the days when Gigabyte laid on some decent power delivery and component selection across the board even on their lite boards with a reassuring selection of solid state, etc. parts.

orbitalwalsh · 8 Oct 2020 at 14:08

Vince said:
I was running a 2700x on a asrock b450m-hdv worked flawlessly no need for these massive VRM's, no need at all. 14x70 amp power stages to run a 65w/95w part is just ridiculous. Power delivery is important but I feel that manufacturers are putting way to much into having a stupidly beefy vrm that frankly is not nessesary.

Have to see what clock speeds Zen3 will run at. Have a feeling kitchen sink is being thrown in

Vince · 8 Oct 2020 at 14:14

orbitalwalsh said:
Have to see what clock speeds Zen3 will run at. Have a feeling kitchen sink is being thrown in

Regardless of speeds etc, what do you actually need to run a 105w part? The 2700x is 105w and runs to spec on a b450m-hdv which has a 4+3 power phase with 50amp phases on the 4 vcore power stages. Some of these boards have more power stages than the board running my 180w tdp threadripper part. To much is put into power delivery by people who have no idea which appears to be why we are getting these silly power stages across the entire range making everything more expensive and overspecced than it needs to be.

Gray2233 · 8 Oct 2020 at 14:14

Vince said:
I was running a 2700x on a asrock b450m-hdv worked flawlessly no need for these massive VRM's, no need at all. 14x70 amp power stages to run a 65w/95w part is just ridiculous. Power delivery is important but I feel that manufacturers are putting way to much into having a stupidly beefy vrm that frankly are not nessesary.

I knew a bunch of people who had throttling issues running 2700-3800's on some b450's, even the ones you'd expect to be slightly more premium.

You have to remember that these boards also claim to support the likes of a 3950X, when they're struggling with 8 core parts they sure as hell aren't going to run 12-16c processors.

The power delivery on the new parts might be overkill, but I'd rather that compared to it not being fit for purpose.

Vince · 8 Oct 2020 at 14:19

Gray2233 said:
I knew a bunch of people who had throttling issues running 2700-3800's on some b450's, even the ones you'd expect to be slightly more premium.

You have to remember that these boards also claim to support the likes of a 3950X, when they're struggling with 8 core parts they sure as hell aren't going to run 12-16c processors.

Well I can tell you that a 2700x does not throttle on a b450m-hdv and there are not boards that I am aware of that have worse power stages. Sure the chip will but up against power limits but it didn't throttle. Even then say it did throttle slightly on a 4 phase board.... Manufacturers will have you believe that you all of a sudden need 14 phases, why? clearly a 6/8 phase design is perfectly capable of powering even the most power hungry am4 chip but no we need more than 10 phases now just because.

This isn't a healthy direction imo.

Gray2233 · 8 Oct 2020 at 14:24

Vince said:
Well I can tell you that a 2700x does not throttle on a b450m-hdv and there are not boards that I am aware of that have worse power stages. Sure the chip will but up against power limits but it didn't throttle. Even then say it did throttle slightly on a 4 phase board.... Manufacturers will have you believe that you all of a sudden need 14 phases, why? clearly a 6/8 phase design is perfectly capable of powering even the most power hungry am4 chip but no we need more than 10 phases now just because.

I'm assuming it's running stock?

The HDV is perfectly capable of running a stock 3700X as long as it's in a case with decent airflow, but overclocking is going to present problems and as stated, trying to run the higher end 'supported' CPU's is going to be problematic. Workload also plays a part here, I know a guy who had problems with a B450 Elite when doing heavy workloads on his 3800X despite having good ambient temps and plenty of airflow in his case.

I don't disagree that the boards are probably overspeccing at this point, but honestly it isn't something that bothers me personally. I don't particularly care about motherboard 'features' outside of good power delivery, my audio setup is external and I don't need tons of USB/SATA or the like.

Funnily enough and a little OT, but there's actually a Biostar X570 that might be worse than the HDV.

Vince · 8 Oct 2020 at 14:30

Gray2233 said:
I'm assuming it's running stock?

The HDV is perfectly capable of running a stock 3700X as long as it's in a case with decent airflow, but overclocking is going to present problems and as stated, trying to run the higher end 'supported' CPU's is going to be problematic. Workload also plays a part here, I know a guy who had problems with a B450 Elite when doing heavy workloads on his 3800X despite having good ambient temps and plenty of airflow in his case.

I don't disagree that the boards are probably overspeccing at this point, but honestly it isn't something that bothers me personally. I don't particularly care about motherboard 'features' outside of good power delivery, my audio setup is external and I don't need tons of USB/SATA or the like.

It's the wifes machine, the 2700x was under water so was always up against the boards power limit

you could see in Ryzen master it was effectively power throttling but even when it was it was operating at well over what was outlined on the box as base. The board and processor ended up being changed and she is now on the b450 Aorus M with a 3600. It doesn't bother me as such and power delivery is important but I am starting to see a trend with this and I just feel that to hit the different value price points it shouldn't be all the manufacturers rushing to see who can have the biggest VRM.

orbitalwalsh · 8 Oct 2020 at 14:51

maybe it is true huge VRM arent needed for AMD at least , but least they are £100 cheaper then x570 mid-high tier boards

problem with airflow... everyone slams in a CLC and 120mm fan at the rear or top that doesn't actually come near the vrm heatsink

older case, sat pretty close but VRM temps were higher by 5-10c

Seems Gigabyte giving a free PCIe 4.0 with B550 Master with another reseller for leaving a review with purchase ... b550 selling spree has begun