AMD Zen 3 (5000 Series), rumored 17% IPC gain.

LePhuronn · 24 Oct 2020 at 18:16

I think you're seeing things you want to see, CAT. What you are claiming is simply not happening. Zen 2's multicore performance and superiority is important, and is not any less important now that Zen 3 also takes the single thread performance crown as well. If those of an Intel persuasion say multi core is not important, you show benches and reviews which show the contrary, and by extension you show Zen's multi core superiority. And after so long beating the single thread is what really counts drum, Zen 3 can do show its superiority there as well.

It's not flip-flopping stances or arguments, it's those of an AMD persuasion finally being able to claim definitive wins. And you can't flip flop stances or arguments. Intel peeps can't suddenly claim multi core performance is important because Zen 2 and Zen 3 spank Desperation Lake++++++++++++++++++ until it cries.

So yeah, I really don't know what it is you think you're seeing.

Mr Oblong · 24 Oct 2020 at 18:19

humbug said:
to this day you can still get 2600's for little over £100, AMD keep making them to fill that budget gap, the 3600 will continue at £180 until the £200 5600, at which point it will drop to £130.

It's a nice conveyor belt of product lines for sure.

Mr Oblong · 24 Oct 2020 at 18:22

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
I think its weird really,as its an X variant and it boost quite highly. So either remove it and make it cheaper,or use the Wraith Spire.

The Ryzen 9 3900 non-X is even better value. Not sure for how long though!!

The 5600X is a 65W part so maybe it doesn't actually need it? AMD doing an Nvidia with their product naming?

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 24 Oct 2020 at 18:27

I saw pages of people argueing over more threads(AMD) or less but faster cores(Intel) and it was hard not to miss(always the same people). Intel was "justified" in charging more per core than AMD as their per core performance in gaming is higher and many here disagreed with it.

Scenarios where people were pointing Intel was "faster" in gaming but then some showing in those cases core utilisation was high, hence in the future those CPUs due to less threads would suffer more.

Then people pointing out games such as Star Citizen and Crysis 3(these thread very well),and CPU utilisation charts,etc. Now we can get both Zen2(and even Intel) CPUs with more cores for less money than the Zen3 CPUs,so it seems suddenly thread count isn't important anymore,but per core performance.

Hence,the price increase over previous CPUs is also justified(apparently). It seems a real about turn from arguments only a few months ago.

Mr Oblong said:
The 5600X is a 65W part so maybe it doesn't actually need it? AMD doing an Nvidia with their product naming?

The Ryzen 7 1700/2700 had the Wraith Spire and the Ryzen 7 3700X had a Wraith Prism. All 65W TDP,and I think AMD might be doing a tier shift. The non-X is now split into the non-X and X tiers,and the XT replaces the original X tier. The XT tier had to serve a purpose after all.

Mr Oblong · 24 Oct 2020 at 18:31

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
I saw pages of people argueing over more threads(AMD) or less but faster cores(Intel) and it was hard not to miss(always the same people). Scenarios where people were pointing Intel was "faster" but then some showing in those cases core utilisation was high, hence in the future those CPUs due to less threads would suffer more. Then people pointing out games such as Star Citizen and Crysis 3(these thread very well),and CPU utilisation charts,etc. Now we can get both Zen2(and even Intel) CPUs with more cores for less money than the Zen3 CPUs,so it seems suddenly thread count isn't important anymore,but per core performance.

The Ryzen 7 1700/2700 had the Wraith Spire and the Ryzen 7 3700X had a Wraith Prism. All 65W TDP,and I think AMD might be doing a tier shift. The non-X is now split into the non-X and X tiers,and the XT replaces the original X tier. The XT tier had to serve a purpose after all.

My bad, I thought they were 95W parts.

I think the XT parts will always be nice for a mid-cycle refresh, the name fits that extra gap on top for me.

Doobedoo · 24 Oct 2020 at 18:35

See and this is the problem with Amd getting greedy. We should be talking about how fantastic the new 5000 series of CPU’s are, which they are fantastic and exactly what we all wanted. Instead it’s over shadowed because they wanted to act like Intel or Nvidia in order to milk their customer base. It’s such a shame.

I have given them so much credit because they don’t do the things Intel and Nvidia do, instead of walking a higher path they criticise the opposition at any turn then jump straight into their shoes the moment their feet are big enough.

I’m not naive I understand how business functions I just don’t like it and believe that you should hold yourself to a higher standard.

chroniclard · 24 Oct 2020 at 18:37

GregI said:
French retailer was already selling them by mistake: https://twitter.com/davideneco25320/status/1320027373027397632

So even Europe has stock of these and still November 5th is the release? We can only guess they are just stock piling a bunch over the next ~2 weeks.

Why has a baby got it :eek:

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 24 Oct 2020 at 18:43

Mr Oblong said:
My bad, I thought they were 95W parts.

I think the XT parts will always be nice for a mid-cycle refresh, the name fits that extra gap on top for me.

The Ryzen 9 5900XT and Ryzen 9 5950XT were mentioned in some AMD notes in a presentation IIRC.

AMD is probably holding back.

Doobedoo said:
See and this is the problem with Amd getting greedy. We should be talking about how fantastic the new 5000 series of CPU’s are, which they are fantastic and exactly what we all wanted. Instead it’s over shadowed because they wanted to act like Intel or Nvidia in order to milk their customer base. It’s such a shame.

I have given them so much credit because they don’t do the things Intel and Nvidia do, instead of walking a higher path they criticise the opposition at any turn then jump straight into their shoes the moment their feet are big enough.

I’m not naive I understand how business functions I just don’t like it and believe that you should hold yourself to a higher standard.

Its a few metrics in play here. If you look at the Ryzen 9 5900X its cheaper per core than a Ryzen 5 5600X and a Ryzen 7 5800X,so AMD might be trying to upsell it. Also,they probably learnt from Nvidia,that if you price the new generation highly they can sell the old generation at existing prices and it looks a "bigger" bargain.

It wouldn't surprise me if AMD are holding back the Ryzen 5 5600 non-X and Ryzen 7 5700X to see what Rocketlake S brings to the table. It really only competes with those two product tiers in terms of core count. I just hope the £ doesn't get too weak next year!

Mr Oblong · 24 Oct 2020 at 18:47

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
The Ryzen 9 5900XT and Ryzen 9 5950XT were mentioned in some AMD notes in a presentation IIRC.

AMD is probably holding back.

Its a few metrics in play here. If you look at the Ryzen 9 5900X its cheaper per core than a Ryzen 5 5600X and a Ryzen 7 5800X,so AMD might be trying to upsell it. Also,they probably learnt from Nvidia,that if you price the new generation highly,they can sell the old generation at RRP,and it looks a "bigger" bargain.

It wouldn't surprise me if AMD are holding back the Ryzen 5 5600 non-X and Ryzen 7 5700X to see what Rocketlake S brings to the table. It really only competes with those two product tiers in terms of core count. I just hope the £ doesn't get too weak next year!

I didn't know they'd already been mentioned? I've not seen any tech sites discuss this so it's news to me.

humbug · 24 Oct 2020 at 18:48

Doobedoo said:
See and this is the problem with Amd getting greedy. We should be talking about how fantastic the new 5000 series of CPU’s are, which they are fantastic and exactly what we all wanted. Instead it’s over shadowed because they wanted to act like Intel or Nvidia in order to milk their customer base. It’s such a shame.

I have given them so much credit because they don’t do the things Intel and Nvidia do, instead of walking a higher path they criticise the opposition at any turn then jump straight into their shoes the moment their feet are big enough.

I’m not naive I understand how business functions I just don’t like it and believe that you should hold yourself to a higher standard.

The 1800X was $500, the 5800X is $450.. the 6900 was $800.

AMD have not become more expensive, Intel have become more competitive, they are now charging a lot less for more cores, they had to.

Shaolin Chicken · 24 Oct 2020 at 18:48

dwskillz said:
this going to be another product with hardly any stock?

Yep and a high price.

4K8KW10 · 24 Oct 2020 at 18:52

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
The Ryzen 9 5900XT and Ryzen 9 5950XT were mentioned in some AMD notes in a presentation IIRC.

AMD is probably holding back.

Its a few metrics in play here. If you look at the Ryzen 9 5900X its cheaper per core than a Ryzen 5 5600X and a Ryzen 7 5800X,so AMD might be trying to upsell it. Also,they probably learnt from Nvidia,that if you price the new generation highly they can sell the old generation at existing prices and it looks a "bigger" bargain.

It wouldn't surprise me if AMD are holding back the Ryzen 5 5600 non-X and Ryzen 7 5700X to see what Rocketlake S brings to the table. It really only competes with those two product tiers in terms of core count. I just hope the £ doesn't get too weak next year!

When the Rocket Lake launches, it will be about time to see Zen 3 refresh or Warhol or Ryzen 6000 series.

Shaolin Chicken · 24 Oct 2020 at 18:55

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
I just hope the £ doesn't get too weak next year!

Let's all hope so.

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 24 Oct 2020 at 18:57

Mr Oblong said:
I didn't know they'd already been mentioned? I've not seen any tech sites discuss this so it's news to me.

It was mentioned in an AMD slide - some think it was a typo,but it might have been AMD making a subtle hint they still have more to release.

4K8KW10 said:
When the Rocket Lake launches, it will be about time to see Zen 3 refresh or Warhol or Ryzen 6000 series.

It might be we some some additional clock boosted models,and some lower end ones.

Shaolin Chicken said:
Let's all hope so.

Even 10% worse would easily add £20~£30 to the price of a CPU.

Mr Oblong · 24 Oct 2020 at 19:09

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
It was mentioned in an AMD slide - some think it was a typo,but it might have been AMD making a subtle hint they still have more to release.

It might be we some some additional clock boosted models,and some lower end ones.

Even 10% worse would easily add £20~£30 to the price of a CPU.

Hmm.

They'll have more chips lined up soon of course, but personally I'm not expecting XT chips before mid next year. We'll see I suppose.

Doobedoo · 24 Oct 2020 at 19:16

humbug said:
The 1800X was $500, the 5800X is $450.. the 6900 was $800.

AMD have not become more expensive, Intel have become more competitive, they are now charging a lot less for more cores, they had to.

The 1800x was zens flagship cpu things have moved on a fair bit since then as you well know. It’s the equivalent of the 5950x. Does that cost £500?

Chaos666 · 24 Oct 2020 at 19:19

Grim5 said:
5.6ghz 8700k? On ln2 maybe

140 aio in nzxt h1
single core.. 3cores disabled and ht..
I can do 5.4 on all cores though

Chaos666 · 24 Oct 2020 at 19:21

Robert896r1 said:
That seems low. My 9900k (same chip really) at 52/48 sc:

better memory and higher cache frequency

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 24 Oct 2020 at 19:24

Mr Oblong said:
Hmm.

They'll have more chips lined up soon of course, but personally I'm not expecting XT chips before mid next year. We'll see I suppose.

I think AMD is holding back some models for the next Intel CPU release.

4K8KW10 · 24 Oct 2020 at 19:26

The 1800x was zens flagship cpu things have moved on a fair bit since then as you well know. It’s the equivalent of the 5950x. Does that cost £500?

According to AMD, Ryzen 7 1800X was the top part in the Performance tier: $500.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryzen#Ryzen_1000

Ryzen 7 2700X was the top part in the Performance tier: $329.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryzen#Ryzen_2000

Ryzen 7 3800X/XT was the top part in the Performance tier: $399.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryzen#Ryzen_3000

Ryzen 7 5800X is the top part in the Performance tier: $449.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryzen#Ryzen_5000

According to AMD, even today everything that has more than 8 cores is Enthusiast tier.
Ryzen 1000 had no Enthusiast tier MSDT - only HEDT Threadrippers.

:eek: