Could Germany have won WW2?

[Angilion]

Hitler didn't want a world war.

True - he wanted a succession of smaller wars so he could consolidate and rebuild between them.

In fact I am a tiny bit surprised that Churchill did not accept his offer of peace in 1940.

I'm not. Churchill was well aware the offer of peace was a lie. Hitler had already broken a number of agreements he'd signed. The most famous example was the peace agreement between Germany and the USSR (in which both leaders were lying and each intended to attack the other) but there were others earlier and Churchill knew that.

But anyway, once an all out war happened then Germany was going to lose. The war awoke the American industrial machine which Hitler massively underestimated. Germany was in fact nowhere near an atomic bomb. Somewhat unlike Hitler, this was an area they were only half-heatedly interested in. The general feeling is that his opinion of the atomic bomb was the same as the UK's, that it was plausible but it demanded too many resources in both materials and manpower to achieve - it was a long-term project. Their heavy water based reactor was a joke. Had Churchill known how primitive it was they doubtless would have paid less attention to destroying Norwegian assets. I guess he couldn't take that risk. But no bones here even if the reactor they had created was tiny. They had no way to manufacture materials for a uranium bomb and not a clue about a plutonium bomb. It would have required a huge leap in knowledge and absolutely massive investment that Germany simply didn't have. Few countries did at the time.

But, as you guessed, the Allies didn't know that Germany didn't have that capability. All they knew was that an atomic bomb was theoretically possible and that Germany had a nuclear weapons program. So ruining that program as much as possible was a good idea. Incidentally, the first attack on the "Norwegian assets" you refer to was carried out by Norwegians.

 

[pp111]

I'm not. Churchill was well aware the offer of peace was a lie. Hitler had already broken a number of agreements he'd signed. The most famous example was the peace agreement between Germany and the USSR (in which both leaders were lying and each intended to attack the other) but there were others earlier and Churchill knew that.

I am not too sure it was a lie. I guess since we can't ask him we will never know, but I have my doubts. But I certainly think that Churchill didn't trust him and I guess he was right not to - look what Hitler did to Stalin.

 

[4K8KW10]

Hitler didn't expect Britain to turn against him. Actually, why did the USA and Britain ally with the Soviet Union against Germany?

 

[Angilion]

Hitler didn't expect Britain to turn against him. Actually, why did the USA and Britain ally with the Soviet Union against Germany?

Least bad available course of action. If you have an immediate enemy and a not-immediate enemy, a temporary alliance with the not-immediate enemy often makes sense.

If Hitler really expected Britain to do nothing in the hope of maybe being allowed to be a very junior partner to Germany (like Italy), he was delusional.

 

[Von Smallhausen]

I don't think Germany could've won. They certainly swept through Europe with Blitzkrieg tactics and the English Channel may well have stopped them taking hold in this country but win the war ? No.

Hitler had some top generals but what they were asked to do wasn't possible. Operation Barbarossa opened a second front which was a catastrophic error given the size of the USSR and its manufacturing base being largely out of range of German bombers and the cost in men and materiel on a two front war was never going to he sustainable. A third front was effectively opened up with Operation Husky and the Italian Campaign which was a further nail in the Nazi coffin.

With Allied forces heading east and Soviet forces heading west towards Berlin, Germany could never counter such might and supply lines with conventional force.

Ironically, I'm reading an alternate history novel now set in 2020 Britain where Nazi Germany won the war.

 

[4K8KW10]

Least bad available course of action. If you have an immediate enemy and a not-immediate enemy, a temporary alliance with the not-immediate enemy often makes sense.

If Hitler really expected Britain to do nothing in the hope of maybe being allowed to be a very junior partner to Germany (like Italy), he was delusional.

I think Britain wasn't directly threatened. Actually, Britain made an artificial "immediate" enemy because of some very strange feeling towards Poland and betrayal towards the other Germanic nation.
After all, Britain is a Germanic nation and speaks a Germanic language.

I don't think Germany could've won. They certainly swept through Europe with Blitzkrieg tactics and the English Channel may well have stopped them taking hold in this country but win the war ? No.

Hitler had some top generals but what they were asked to do wasn't possible. Operation Barbarossa opened a second front which was a catastrophic error given the size of the USSR and its manufacturing base being largely out of range of German bombers and the cost in men and materiel on a two front war was never going to he sustainable. A third front was effectively opened up with Operation Husky and the Italian Campaign which was a further nail in the Nazi coffin.

With Allied forces heading east and Soviet forces heading west towards Berlin, Germany could never counter such might and supply lines with conventional force.

Ironically, I'm reading an alternate history novel now set in 2020 Britain where Nazi Germany won the war.

From what I have read, Germany was relatively close to conquering the major Soviet cities.
What stopped them was that they were a little bit late and the harsh winter conditions.


I think it was a major mistake by Britain and it will always hang around as a heavy burden upon your relations with Germany.

Bad relations with the Russian Federation, bad relations with Germany and all of its allies.

 

[Angilion]

I think Britain wasn't directly threatened. Actually, Britain made an artificial "immediate" enemy because of some very strange feeling towards Poland and betrayal towards the other Germanic nation.
After all, Britain is a Germanic nation and speaks a Germanic language.

That's debateable now, but also irrelevant. Also, why do you count only two Germanic nations? ("the other Germanic nation"). Why not other countries that speak a Germanic language? There are half a dozen at least. Most of which were invaded by Germany in WW2. Why not the other countries that were in the area the Romans called Germania, the origin of the whole idea of "Germanic"? Which didn't include Britain.

As for betrayal, the only country Britain arguably betrayed in the run up to WW2 was Czechoslovakia.

 

[4K8KW10]

The potential outcome could have been a pan-Germanic union of all the Germanic nations.
I think Hitler not only didn't expect declaration of war from Britain but help from Britain.

 

[Nasher]

Germany invading the UK was going to happen eventually no matter what we did. He ultimately wanted to dispose of all the Jews and then anyone who wasn't a white European.

 

[Roar87]

Germany invading the UK was going to happen eventually no matter what we did. He ultimately wanted to ethnic cleanse anyone who wasn't a white European.

Why do you think that? Hitler respected the Brits, he didn't want a war with us

 

[potatolord]

No. They picked fights with everyone at once.

After Stalingrad it was just a question of time.

Arguably the d-day invasion saved germany from a complete soviet takeover. They got lucky there.

 

[Eurofighter]

It was japan that attacked pearl harbour. Perhaps without usa joining the war he would have won.

 

[flea.rider]

simple fact is if he would have dug in and waited 6-12 months before attacking the ussr and held the eu before attacking the uk .. then yes he would have won .. //why ?
because his long range missiles and rocket powered planes would have been in operation .. never mind the new tanks and hand weapons ..
thank god he felt he could not wait ..

 

[4K8KW10]

Germany lost so much territory during the first and second wars. Maybe the best for them would have been NOT to start the first world war?!

The first world war was quite mean - the Austro-Hungarian heir was killed and then they lost the war - what a sad chain of events.

 

[neocon]

No, the Americans had a secret bomb that could've been dropped on German cities.

 

[Tephnos]

Why do you think that? Hitler respected the Brits, he didn't want a war with us

That's also what I've come to understand. Hitler was a bit of an Anglophile (despite not understanding British culture at all, which is why Churchill's actions stupefied him) - he massively respected the British Empire and what Britain had achieved. He didn't like them during WW1 but came around after. From what I recall, he delusionally envisioned Germany and Britain standing side by side to fight off the real enemy at some point - the Americans.

This is why when the UK signed that naval treaty with Germany, which purposefully kept Germany's max naval production at a third of the size of the UKs, Hitler was extremely happy and called it the greatest day of his life, as he believed that an alliance with the Empire was close by. Britain, of course, scoffed at this.

Hitler probably envisioned a world in which the Nazi's handled continental affairs across Europe and parts of Asia, while the British Empire kept to themselves with their global colonisation efforts outside of Europe. Essentially, as long as the two empires didn't collide, things were fine. Would he have changed his mind at some point? Who knows.

 

[4K8KW10]

Well, he was right about that. Why did Britain accept the U.S independence, in the first place?

 

[Tephnos]

Well, he was right about that. Why did Britain accept the U.S independence, in the first place?

Because the US was a backwater nation of religious nutjobs and farmers that we dumped there. At the time, it wasn't worth anything compared to going eastwards and taking countries like India, which was extremely profitable for Britain in the 1800s. Additionally, the UK had just come out of the Seven Years Wars as the only major superpower in the world - at the cost of having zero allies. The UK was concerned that the countries it had previously beaten (like France and Spain) would be looking for revenge.

The US only really became a major player starting in the 1900s.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

Good thing Hitler never got hold of nukes. Would have been game over.

 

[ChroniC]

As good a thread as any to ask this I guess, but does there exist enough information to put together a website or a book with every single day / operation / battle of the whole of WW2.
I would crazily like to know what happened, how many were lost and where everyday of the whole war. A complete WW2 encyclopaedia maybe?