Is the future really electric

[DereksDontRun]

While reading the pay per mile thread and the push towards electric. Not to mention the proposed drop of all ice/hybrid by 2030/35.

It made me wonder, how do we all expect electric car ownership to work for the masses?

Those of us with drives/garages can have a charger and/or cable to the car. But how's it meant to work for those that live in terrace houses and have to park on the street - often away from their own front door? Do we expect extension leads running down pavements and around the block? Or is this all going to require some kinda regularly spaced charging hub along the pavement that the cars plug into and you pay to an account?

The more I think, the more I feel that those less well off are going to be priced out of a car. Alongside the ban of new ICE/hybrids I can imagine the tax on petrol to start shooting up, to try and push people over to electric (and effectively leave petrol as a luxury item for those with classic cars). But, it's not like everyone can afford a new car tomorrow - so those that rely on a banger won't be able to change, and even less chance if petrol prices shoot up to "punish the polluters." Even if you think of some car subscription service - a lot of people won't be able to afford it.

Without wanting to make assumptions, but I'd guess that those less able to buy a new electric car will be those without drives or places to park/charge an electric car. So, is this all effectively going to push the less affluent away from car ownership?

 

[4K8KW10]

The future will be green - either electric or hydrogen - fuel cells.

Oil is in limited quantities and with this speed as of today, will be depleted in a couple of dozens of years, anyways.

Tesla-Supercharger-firebaugh-world-largest - It is located between the Bay Area and Los Angeles — two of Tesla’s biggest markets in the world.


Tesla opens world’s largest Supercharger station
https://electrek.co/2020/11/14/tesla-opens-worlds-largest-supercharger-station/

 

[DereksDontRun]

no, I understand the ultimately oil is a finite resource and we need to move to something like electric or hydrogen. But the reality is that the majority of people cant afford to up and move to an electric car. And then I just tried to think of the logistics of car charging for the masses, who don't have drives/garages/etc.

(makes you wonder what life will be like for our children - at some point fuel will become a silly price that any overseas-travel will be exclusive to the 1% etc.)

 

[4K8KW10]

Electric cars are cheap, no worries.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Plus 10 years is ages to get all this sorted, it's twice as long as Brexit and look how straightforward that was

 

[4K8KW10]

Plus 10 years is ages to get all this sorted, it's twice as long as Brexit and look how straightforward that was

People will begin buying 100% electric or alternative fuels much earlier than that and effectively the ban wouldn't be needed

 

[DereksDontRun]

People will begin buying 100% electric or alternative fuels much earlier than that and effectively the ban wouldn't be needed

any nobody here has a car that's over 10 years old?!? There's LOADS of 10+ year old cars on the roads.

If they expect/need the majority of the country to move over to electric then there needs to be (still working) cars across the used car market down to sub £1k... They need LOADS of electric cars being bought today, to be available as affordable used in 10 years. That's not happening, so there's going to be loads of fossil fuel vehicles about in 10 years

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

While reading the pay per mile thread and the push towards electric. Not to mention the proposed drop of all ice/hybrid by 2030/35.

It made me wonder, how do we all expect electric car ownership to work for the masses?

Those of us with drives/garages can have a charger and/or cable to the car. But how's it meant to work for those that live in terrace houses and have to park on the street - often away from their own front door? Do we expect extension leads running down pavements and around the block? Or is this all going to require some kinda regularly spaced charging hub along the pavement that the cars plug into and you pay to an account?

The more I think, the more I feel that those less well off are going to be priced out of a car. Alongside the ban of new ICE/hybrids I can imagine the tax on petrol to start shooting up, to try and push people over to electric (and effectively leave petrol as a luxury item for those with classic cars). But, it's not like everyone can afford a new car tomorrow - so those that rely on a banger won't be able to change, and even less chance if petrol prices shoot up to "punish the polluters." Even if you think of some car subscription service - a lot of people won't be able to afford it.

Without wanting to make assumptions, but I'd guess that those less able to buy a new electric car will be those without drives or places to park/charge an electric car. So, is this all effectively going to push the less affluent away from car ownership?

Do you fill your car with petrol every day? At home?

When your using your car is it ever parked in places that could become hubs for charging that aren't streets?

- Carparks be that works or supermarkets or shops etc

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

any nobody here has a car that's over 10 years old?!? There's LOADS of 10+ year old cars on the roads.

If they expect/need the majority of the country to move over to electric then there needs to be (still working) cars across the used car market down to sub £1k... They need LOADS of electric cars being bought today, to be available as affordable used in 10 years. That's not happening, so there's going to be loads of fossil fuel vehicles about in 10 years

They are saying no new cars at that point, not everyone needs to switch

I assume petrol/diesel would be relatively mainstream for 10 years after the ban with availability starting to fall at some point after that as demand starts to really fall off

 

[Rroff]

I wouldn't be surprised if in another few years the focus is back on creating even more efficient engines (and vehicle design) that run on biofuels TBH with electric in the mix.

 

[4K8KW10]

I wouldn't be surprised if in another few years the focus is back on creating even more efficient engines (and vehicle design) that run on biofuels TBH with electric in the mix.

Biofuels is not a good idea - we need those lands for agriculture and food.

 

[chrcoluk]

I think for cramped city terraced type housing, there will be street side charge points. Like many things in life, been poor, and living in urban areas, you take drops in quality of life, so this wont be seen as a major issue I expect.

One thing that I am curious about though given how expensive electric is now days and its uber inflation, will these be more expensive to run than petrol cars?

 

[DereksDontRun]

Do you fill your car with petrol every day? At home?

When your using your car is it ever parked in places that could become hubs for charging that aren't streets?

- Carparks be that works or supermarkets or shops etc

no, i understand, but where are the majority of electric cars being charged today? on the drive overnight?

I guess it all goes hand-in-hand with debates about car-ownership. If cars are to become a Boris bike rental then they could be stored in some central charging dock and return there regularly to swap the entire car to instantly jump into a freshly charged one. But, while we still consider traditional ownership then people will want their own expensive commodity to be near to home without needing to commute to get the car. This means that until a drop-in full charge in sub 5mins option is available, they'll need to be charged somewhere near to homes?

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

no, i understand, but where are the majority of electric cars being charged today? on the drive overnight?

I guess it all goes hand-in-hand with debates about car-ownership. If cars are to become a Boris bike rental then they could be stored in some central charging dock and return there regularly to swap the entire car to instantly jump into a freshly charged one. But, while we still consider traditional ownership then people will want their own expensive commodity to be near to home without needing to commute to get the car. This means that until a drop-in full charge in sub 5mins option is available, they'll need to be charged somewhere near to homes?

For many yes i am sure, a its cheaper and b until you get mass adoption your more at risk of finding a way to "refuel"

For many they need it to be more mainstream and hence it being economically viable for more supply to be created its certainly partly chicken and egg right now

We need planning to be ensuring capability is there, so all new public / commercial parking spots should be enabled for charging, (that should mean in effect cable underground to the point no more), all new houses with houses with enough capcaity, supply stations with enough capacity, again cabling to the parking spots if not driveways
That way a big chunk of the enabling is done, the bit thats painful such as digging up roads

 

[4K8KW10]

I think for cramped city terraced type housing, there will be street side charge points. Like many things in life, been poor, and living in urban areas, you take drops in quality of life, so this wont be seen as a major issue I expect.

One thing that I am curious about though given how expensive electric is now days and its uber inflation, will these be more expensive to run than petrol cars?

wow
You can charge your electric car with free electricity if you have access to such.

And:
Electric cars are already cheaper to own and run, says study
Petrol and diesel vehicles cost more over four years in UK and four other European nations

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/12/electric-cars-already-cheaper-own-run-study

 

[SDK^]

Those of us with drives/garages can have a charger and/or cable to the car. But how's it meant to work for those that live in terrace houses and have to park on the street - often away from their own front door? Do we expect extension leads running down pavements and around the block? Or is this all going to require some kinda regularly spaced charging hub along the pavement that the cars plug into and you pay to an account?

There are already networks of chargers implemented into street lamp posts. You park next to one and plug-in - simples
I imagine given time this will expand, with other street charging options too.

One thing that I am curious about though given how expensive electric is now days and its uber inflation, will these be more expensive to run than petrol cars?

Electric expensive now ?
There is one home Electricity Tariff which currently allows free charging during the night. In fact for small periods they actually pay you to use it

Screenshot from an EV user - black text is credit

 

[Quartz]

I think that personal cars for the masses are on the way out and will be replaced by self-driving cars for the bulk of the population. Who really needs to spend tens of thousands of pounds on something that spends most of its time sitting on your drive or in the street quietly depreciating if you can have a self-driving car at your location in 5 minutes?

There will always be a need for ICE cars like the Land Rover and Toyota Land Cruiser - vehicles that go places where there is no electricity. But this will be a small minority of cars.

 

[4K8KW10]

I think that personal cars for the masses are on the way out and will be replaced by self-driving cars for the bulk of the population. Who really needs to spend tens of thousands of pounds on something that spends most of its time sitting on your drive or in the street quietly depreciating if you can have a self-driving car at your location in 5 minutes?

There will always be a need for ICE cars like the Land Rover and Toyota Land Cruiser - vehicles that go places where there is no electricity. But this will be a small minority of cars.

I don't need a "self-driving" car 5 minutes from my home

I thought that the vast majority of people lease/finance their cars, anyways. Once it's an old model, they begin to pay monthly fees for the new model.

 

[ezekial]

We need to get a move on with nuclear fusion

 

[Quartz]

We need to get on with nuclear fission in the meantime.