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GPU Wars:Who is winning?

A lot of new games will support them, that's likely to grow with new consoles having DXR support.

I'd rather have the features and the performance available when they're an option then not.

So in 2+ years when there's a notable amount of games that utilise DXR and DLSS .. there'll be new cards and we'd need to re-evaluate anyway. Not to mention the software changes for the CURRENT cards, I suspect DLSS will have changed to support a wider amount of games (ie not requiring the same developer input as it currently has) -- but also AMD will 100% have a competing technology by that time...

Basically the "it'll be better in the future" argument is not the best tbh..

Edit: I'll note, some of these ray tracing arguments were present for the 20x0 cards too -- see how well that's worked out. lol
 
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If Watch Dogs Legions is anything to go by dlss is pretty Limited in scope. With that game it clearly shows that you have to blur the image in order to get a performance boost. Nothing like from that other game death stranding. Which now appears to be just a one-off when it comes to open world games. Which suggests that game has very little open-worldness to it. Just open space.
:D
 
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So in 2+ years when there's a notable amount of games that utilise DXR and DLSS .. there'll be new cards and we'd need to re-evaluate anyway. Not to mention the software changes for the CURRENT cards, I suspect DLSS will have changed to support a wider amount of games (ie not requiring the same developer input as it currently has) -- but also AMD will 100% have a competing technology by that time...

Basically the "it'll be better in the future" argument is not the best tbh..

Edit: I'll note, some of these ray tracing arguments were present for the 20x0 cards too -- see how well that's worked out. lol

There are quite a few existing games of course that use both or RTX/DLSS, so not just for the future as you say.
 
Have you come across any reviews specifically for MSFS at all. I'm still on Prepar3D (love my ngx and dash 8) but need to learn more about how it performs with AMD cards/CPUs.
Hardware Unboxed did some benchmarks with loads of games recently including FS at 4k.

3080 was usefully ahead in that particular game.
 
Many are still forgetting that there is a global pandemic which basically started end of last year. It has affected many things, people still whinging they cant get one and it's nvidias fault and AMD's. Much of production was closed down and whilst the launch still went ahead (otherwise people would have moaned if that was delayed) but it's just the knock on effect of ceasing production. Consoles will be the same. Xmas will be different this year. You may as well shout at the moon.

If you are too poor and can only save up for an RRP (which don't forget is ONLY a recommended price) don't begrudge those that can afford to pay higher retail prices. That's just the way things in demand are. Unless you have a high refresh monitor these are a waste at any resolution anyway.

If you can't afford it or cant get one, no one cares. If you were too stupid to join some of the biggest queue's at one retailer and are FOMO by staying in the queue, then again there is little sympathy. But thanlks to all who have stayed in Queue's so we can buy up from other etailers.

Merry Xmas
I certainly haven't forgotten the global pandemic, my wife is front line dealing with covid patients every day since March and I recently retired from the Ambulance service, however didn't stop Micosoft shifting Xboxes, 'According to VGChartz, the Xbox Series S/X sold between 1.2 million and 1.4 million on launch day. The United States of America was the biggest market for the systems, with Europe just behind it.' So i would guess its more Amd putting more resources to Xbox and PS5. Uk alone sold 155,000 in the first week. How many 3070/80/90 in UK since launch, well cant find any figures because they kept it a secret as its probably embarrassing.
 
I certainly haven't forgotten the global pandemic, my wife is front line dealing with covid patients every day since March and I recently retired from the Ambulance service, however didn't stop Micosoft shifting Xboxes, 'According to VGChartz, the Xbox Series S/X sold between 1.2 million and 1.4 million on launch day. The United States of America was the biggest market for the systems, with Europe just behind it.' So i would guess its more Amd putting more resources to Xbox and PS5. Uk alone sold 155,000 in the first week. How many 3070/80/90 in UK since launch, well cant find any figures because they kept it a secret as its probably embarrassing.


Hats off to your wife and yourself for those roles in society :cool:, bet the Wife's been particularly stressed.

I guess gfx card manufacturers didn't quite expect the demand and AMD maybe thought consoles were a better manufacturing bet.

I wonder if 155,00 were sold and shipped in the 1st week or were predominantly pre order?

Like many things during the pandemic - bicycles sold out, home gym equipment (2nd hand concept 2 rowers were going for more than new ones!)

Same with monitors for working at home and all sorts sld out. Guess the same is for gfx cards - folk stuck in and looking at their gaming PC. Definitely noticed an influx of new forum members during this release.

I conclude that the reason there are no available cards is because of the pandemic causing demand and stifling the production of such.
 
Who is winning?

The retailers who are able to slap an enormous markup on the cards due to supply and demand.

AMD and Nvidia are losing face and reputation due to atrocious launches.

Id argue demand is even higher this generation, not just because of the pandemic and people wanting to spend more money on home entertainment, but also because the Nvidia 2000 series were such a poor upgrade over the 1000 series. As such we have people who were on 1000 series cards who actually finally get a decent value for money upgrade on top of the 2000 series owners who upgrade each gen anyway.
 
If Watch Dogs Legions is anything to go by dlss is pretty Limited in scope. With that game it clearly shows that you have to blur the image in order to get a performance boost. Nothing like from that other game death stranding. Which now appears to be just a one-off when it comes to open world games. Which suggests that game has very little open-worldness to it. Just open space.
:D

Have you actually played Watch Dogs Legions on an Nvidia card and toggled on/off the various DLSS settings to see for yourself? I'm a home cinema enthusiast and very fussy about picture quality, but to my eyes there is no difference that I can see in either Metro or Watchdogs, if there was I would turn it off as I'm not enabling anything that lowers picture quality. DLSS is the real deal.
 
No, DLSS is faking it but making it look real close to the real deal ... otherwise it'd be native resolution - the real deal.

I suppose it depends on your definition, to me looking the same as native res while boosting frame rates is what I want. If it's not native 3440x1440 but looks it then good enough for me.
 
Hardware Unboxed did some benchmarks with loads of games recently including FS at 4k.

3080 was usefully ahead in that particular game.
MSFS2020 is DX11 where Nvidia have traditionally held a lead. I suspect the DX12 version which really must come at some stage will reverse things.
 
If you've played CoD Cold War, which I did a LOT last night on my 3080, I think that's a very strong case for when you implement next gen effects, Nvidia are a clear winner. That game maxed out in 4k using max ray tracing effects and DLSS looks incredible. I don't normally say this about the CoD games since they're often extremely underwhelming visually, but they've done an amazing job this time around and it sets a new bar for FPS quality for next gen that hopefully CyberPunk and many others will quickly follow up on.

I've not had first hand 6800XT experience in the game, but 4k Ultra settings with RT is about 20 fps going by this video
so completely unplayable. Dropping to 1440p with RT on to reclaim some frame rate leaves you with about 60fps average with some bad lows, fine in singleplayer but not ideal in Multiplayer.

If you're an IQ purist and you spit at DLSS, and you just want raw 1440p side by side comparisons with ray tracing you're still going to get way faster performance with Nvidia, there's just more grunt to their RT cores. But DLSS gives you the flexibility to either push higher resolutions or faster frame rates, whatever your preference is. If like me you have a 4k monitor and your focus is high resolution and high quality you'd normally have a dilemma with RT, because 4k native with RT isn't quite playable (about 45fps for me). Regular up-scaling of 1440p to 4k is typically brutal on image quality. However with DLSS "Quality" mode at 4k, the internal resolution is 1440p and the output quality is so damn near 4k native that it's impossible to tell, all with easily playable frame rates in the 80's. If instead you're a performance fanatic then you can switch down to DLSS "Balanced" or "Performance" modes to get your FPS to like 120 with a 4k output, although quality suffers slightly because DLSS is working smaller internal resolutions, only 1080p in "performance" mode.

This is why I don't think raw benchmark numbers of rasterization games tells enough of the story in reviews. At the end of the day I pay money for my video card to get a better gaming experience, the leap in quality with RT effects along with the general fidelity increase gives an amazing new experience. And I don't have to sacrifice either 4k or high frame rates, you can literally have it all. With AMD in the same generation you're going to have to sacrifice something, you can pick and choose whatever that is (res, performance, RT or other settings) but something has to give.

Excellent points and exactly how I feel in regards to my gaming experience.
 

Have you actually played Watch Dogs Legions on an Nvidia card and toggled on/off the various DLSS settings to see for yourself? I'm a home cinema enthusiast and very fussy about picture quality, but to my eyes there is no difference that I can see in either Metro or Watchdogs, if there was I would turn it off as I'm not enabling anything that lowers picture quality. DLSS is the real deal.

No, DLSS is faking it but making it look real close to the real deal ... otherwise it'd be native resolution - the real deal.
@spolsh Thanks for clarifying that. And, to further add lets look at those differences




For roughly 20FPS boost, on performance, you blur the image up to a point where text in the distance isn't readable. However does work wonders on preventing the "crawlies" do to edges that aren't anti alias. It makes textures look muddy but hard to detect do to self shadowing, ambient occlusion and other post processing effects can do a good job hiding the muddiness of the texture.

Even with quality it's not as clear as with it off. So again, IMO, all dlss does in WD: Legion is simply blur the image for a performance improvement. Unlike what was found in Death Stranding which is still a one-off.

I await GTA VI to see if that holds true or not.
 
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What do you class top tier though Kaaps? Because 3090 is only like 15% on average better which is hardly much is it? :p

I don't class the 3090 as top tier either, it is not even a full fat card.

It is just overpriced.

Top tier will be 7nm TSMC and hopefully the Ampere Titan.

Which reminds me I must do something with those two 3090s just sat in their boxes, First World problems.:eek:
 
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